Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This is an interview you don't want to miss. This is an interview of tradition and history of a tequila that's been around forever, with a lot of changes, from ownership to how they make it today to where it's being made today. Tonight, we're going to talk to Rafael Dianda, one of the owners of Cuatrocopas, and we're going to talk about how they came up with the idea of the tequila, the logo of the tequila, and how farmers in around us started making a Valles tequila in Amatatan and Arenal. And we're going to talk about the changes that are coming soon and the special Tequila that's going to be coming out. So don't miss this one. It's. It's amazing. It's tasting tequila with bread, Man. I am stoked to be sitting here tonight talking about, I'm gonna say, a classic tequila, the very first organic Tequila. We're gonna learn all about it tonight with Rafael Tianda. Rafael, how are you doing today, my friend?
[00:01:06] Speaker B: I'm doing super great. Thank you for having me, my friend. I'm excited to go down this journey with you and can't wait to explore and talk about a little bit of what makes for Copa so special, man.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: I am, too. This is a brand that I had never had until you sent it. It's not one that I could find in Indiana. And I sent. Seen it one time, like, on a shelf at a liquor store after I had already bought more tequila than what I was allowed to buy. I do have a budget, so I thought, man, I'm gonna go back to that liquor store. So I went back, like, a week later, and there was none. And I asked the guy, I said, do you have that four Copas? And he's like, no, it's on backorder now. We don't have any. And I've. And I've never seen it again.
So when I seen that you had made a move to one of my favorite distilleries and started working with absolutely one of my favorite people, Ileana Partita. Now I'm like, okay, if I have to walk to a Matatan to find this tequila, I'm going to find it. So I'm really excited. I've tasted each one. I've really enjoyed each one, and I can't wait to hear the story. So tell everybody a little bit about who you are and how you got in the tequila business and maybe your first love about tequila.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, like I said, thank you very much for having me. It's a It's an honor to be on such a prestigious platform with the main man himself. But my background in the tequila world spans quite a long time. I'm a fourth generation agave grower from the town of what I call it the center of the world, Aranda, Jalisco. My grandfather and his family started growing agave many years ago and we still have the original ranch, family ranch.
And we visited often to the point where my grandfather and my uncles are still in town. Everyone knows their stories.
He was a very well known politician and entrepreneur in the area for many years.
And we still have a lot of roots, which I'm very proud of. I try to make my way down there once every two months, every three months. Just check in on how everyone's doing and make sure that they don't forget about me quite yet.
But yeah, from there. My mom kind of took over a lot of the field after my grandfather passed and my father is also from. From Aranda Salisto. And between my. My father's entrepreneur background here in the US and my mother's legacy in the agave growing, they combined and we've had four Copas for 15 years in running.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: Wow, that's awesome.
So did you grow up like going out to the fields and like living in the Arandas area?
[00:03:49] Speaker B: Absolutely. Every summer, every break, every chance we had, we always would make our way down to Orandas. I still have a lot of family down there and it's been a special place to grow up, a special experience. I consider half of my heart over there and half of my heart here in Southern California. So I have one foot in each location. But nonetheless, the agave is who we are and those plants tell quite a. Quite a story.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: So I've been to around us a lot. So which side of around us is. Are your fields. Are you more towards this side of going to Capia del Guadalupe or are you more. Oh, you are so close to Capilla del Guadalupe.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: Yeah, so if you're one of my cousins actually married somebody in downtown Capilla.
So the whole Capilla and Tepa area are very well known. Atotonilco as well. All my family's fans that they've moved or married people from those regions as well. But my fields are literally when you enter around us, there's a big plastic bag factory to the right, which are one of my relatives as well. They're my cousin's plastic. It's a global plastic. So that's my cousin's factory. And if you. There's a. There's a road that runs right through there. Yeah, yeah, they're right. They're five minute drive. Once you, once you get into the cobblestone road, you enter my grandfather's property. So yeah, we've had those fields for many, many years and I've always loved going down there. I was just down there about a month ago myself.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: That's amazing. My favorite time that we've had down there was recently we went for Independence Day. Even though all the distilleries were closed, we knew we weren't going to be able to do any visits. My wife and I's anniversary happens to be September 16th. So going into the square on the 15th and seeing the celebration of the battle and then coming in the next day and watching 5,000 horses come into town and celebrate Independence Day.
Did you do that as a kid? Like, is that something that you did on a regular, you know, every year basis?
[00:05:49] Speaker B: So most of the time the parties, the famous fiesta, Santa Rambas would happen in September and then the other ones would happen in January.
Unfortunately, that's when school is in session. So I didn't grow up going to those parties until I was a little older. But I was lucky enough that most of my family came to visit me because they live where you, where the mayor's office is, the home that's right across the street. That's where my mother was born. That's my, that's my uncle's home to this day. And they, yeah, they, they don't want to be around with such a huge crowd. So they'll actually come and visit me here in California. So for me it was a special time, but for different reasons.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: That's funny you say that. A master distiller friend of mine, he's like, I'm glad you're coming to town. He said, you can stay at my place. But for me, too much drinking, I'm going to Puerto Vallarta.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: It makes a lot of sense. A lot of local, there are a lot of old families that have been there since for many years will actually leave town just because of how crazy and all the life that's there. But I know it's a special experience.
You can't really equate it to anything.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: No, it was, it was magical.
So let's talk about how you got started with four copas. What was the process to creating or having the idea to create this brand?
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Sure. So we are not the original creators. I want to make sure all of our friends and family that hear this all across the world, you know, we're very proud of the legacy of Cuatropas and our part in it.
The brand was founded in 1997 with four key partners, hence Cuatra Popas. And it's based on a very famous Mexican love song by Jose Alfredo Jimenez, which is a very famous mariachi singer.
And it was an iconic brand even from its inception in Amatitan. It was actually from a town called El Arenado, right before Matitan, and it's one of the hallmarks of the lowland region.
A few years later, one of the original owners was looking for somebody that was from that had the tequila growing background and was willing to partner with them. And so hence they reached out to us in and we thought it would be a great fit.
And eventually, fortunately, that original owner passed and we were left with the brand. And so we said, well, how do we honor the legacy of these amazing pioneers while still being able to transition this amazing brand into the future?
So we had our own distillery for many years, Tequila La queimada, now in 1457.
And that would be historic distilleries that made it the world's first organic tequila.
I want to make sure, clarify. I know other tequila owners might hurt their ears up and say, hey, you know, we make ours organic. Yes, yes, I'll give you the credit. I was with Fernando once and he was very proud and said, you know, Rafa, you know, you claim me to be the world's first organic. I've been doing it for years. I said, that may be true, Mr. Fernando, and I have nothing but respect for your brand, but we were the world's first to certify it organic, and the first a certified kosher as well. And it's like, oh, okay, you got me there. It's a.
But no, nonetheless, we. We tried getting the original factory back up and running for many, many years.
And unfortunately, it was just in such a condition that it would have taken a huge amount of investment just to get it up and running. So we were. We were left with a historic brand and no ways to produce. And we said, how do we keep it in the region while still being able to create that same great quality?
So we went to non 1480, which is what we're drinking here tonight, and we took our original master distiller, Sam Eastrand.
Sebastian Melendros was one of the original creators of Serecin Suprema and Herradura before they sold. So he was a master seller with many, many years of experience, and he called the Matitanis home and he guided us two Las Americas at the time, they only had, you know, two, three brands, plus us. And so we were able to bring in a lot of the legacy while bringing the facilities up to speed to where the quality demanded it. And so that's the product that you're tasting today. Original master sealer, original recipe in many ways. And after he decided to retire, we said, okay, Sebastian, you know what, how do we transition this out? And he goes, well, there's no one better than Ileana Partita. Let me, let me introduce you and let me see what we can do about.
You're in the same region and she's this up and coming superstar in the tequila world. So let's, let's see how we can do this. And Ileana was nothing but receptive.
She loved the brand, she loved the history.
And I called my older sister. She pulled my ears all the time. So she's been amazing to partner with going forward.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: That's awesome. She, she is just such a sweet, kind soul and so fun to talk to. You can tell that she loves what she does because of the happiness that literally comes out every time she's talking. And I, I always say there's no way that that person has a bad day. I know that she does. She's like the rest of us that have bad days, but I still think she goes through those with a smile on her face because every time I'm with her or talk to her, she has this amazing smile on her face. And she, she's doing great things at that distillery. So that's really awesome.
Let, let's talk about the production method of 1480. And then, then I want to dive into what you're maybe doing a little different. And I'm. I'm going to pour some blanco because I got to be drinking something.
[00:11:32] Speaker B: I will join you as well. I'll be pouring some Blanca.
[00:11:35] Speaker A: That's fantastic.
I love, I love the logo and the labels. Actually, let's, let's even, let's. Before that, since we're going to pour and we got the bottle up here, can we talk about the logo real quick and the label and what's the meaning? I know everything has so much meaning. And you told the meaning of the name.
What is the background of this label and the meaning of the label?
[00:11:56] Speaker B: So I'm really glad you asked. I actually have some of the historic bottles. I don't know if you're familiar with another famous influencer, Mario of Tequila tasting session. Yeah, so Mario's uncle, by sheer coincidence I ended up discovering fairly recently, was one of the original founders of Quatrocopas. And he is probably the largest personal collection of Quatrocopas, especially from back in the late 90s, early 2000s. And so I met up with him and we really just reconnected over our love of the brand and he started showing me the transition and gifted me some bottles. So something I want to highlight. This is one of the early editions and this one actually has.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: Oh yeah, I've seen that bottle before.
[00:12:38] Speaker B: Yeah, this is a. Definitely a collector's item. These are all hand blown bottles. Yeah, these bottles were not available in the US for many years because of the fear of the glass breaking inside.
And so that's.
There's a few additions, maybe one or two before then, but when we took over we were transitioning. This is the second version of that. And you can see the artwork is on the back.
[00:13:02] Speaker A: Gotcha.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: And the artist is Cuadrandon.
These are specially commissioned for Cuatrocopas.
And, and these are all, like I said, hand blown bottles and gold leaf on the front. So they were quite unique and special to produce at that time.
And we said, okay, we want to create the same quality bottle, but it's getting more and more expensive to use gold leaf hamblon bottle. I'm like, okay, how do we do this? Well, price is going up. So we decided to use the same mold design and put the chopper on the front, which was kind of our iconic logo.
And we always wanted to maintain that blue neck. We did the blue neck before many, many others decided to start following suit. And we said, okay, that's a beautiful bottle. People loved it. And all of a sudden they said, well, it's getting lost in the back of the bar.
So we said, we have a unique issue in our hands.
From there, we contacted the designers that did the Tequila O labels. They were very good friends of mine. And they, I said, you guys have a really unique challenge because we want to keep the same legacy and look, but we wanted to add something that's very easily visible. So hence we get to where we are today.
[00:14:21] Speaker A: I, I think they're great looking bottles and, and they do like, it stands out in a liquor store. Like that time that I seen them, they were on an end rack. Right. So I didn't see them when I was shopping. And then when I turned around to leave, I was like, what? Holy cow, what are those? And, and I knew the brand but I'd never seen it in person. So they like stood out enough to make me come back to go get them. Unfortunately, they were gone. So I. And they look great here on my bar. Like they stand out and people see them and ask what it is. So I think that's. It's really good. That's really cool. What's the meaning behind the picture on the label?
[00:14:55] Speaker B: It's just something very unique. We wanted to honor kind of the. The chadro legacy of the Calisto region. And on top of that, you have the head of the agave, obviously a node to how the tequila is produced. But we thought it was just really unique, kind of a one of a kind image. And that one really has resonated with the majority of the public just because it's very different.
We wanted to highlight a local artist and something that allowed us to stand out.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: I love it. It's really cool. It's really cool logo and I like the topper that you have with it. It all just has a really good color combo. And then from the 110 down to the blanco and the different labels and the different colors with the label, it's really. It's really great. It's great presentation.
[00:15:37] Speaker B: Yeah, there's some great uniformity between the line. And then I know that some upcoming special editions that we're making with Ileana for our first release is also going to have a nod to this. This design, while looking a little bit more special, let's put it that way. Very cool.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: Very cool. All right, so let's jump into production method and let's basically talk about 1481.
So all the agaves, are they coming from your fields in the highlands and then being taken to the Valles to be able to make this tequila?
[00:16:07] Speaker B: No, no, these are a state from the right around the 1480 area.
We wanted to always maintain that legacy of using the same regions agave for Guatemalcopa. There's always been a lowland tequila. Eventually we will be using our own family agave in the highlands, maybe with some special editions. But the salud.
But the consistency in our standard lines will always be alolan agave. Just because that's the history that Cuatro has made. And since we want to always be respectful and have a nod to our past, that's something we want to highlight.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: That's very cool because knowing that you're all highlands agaves and here you are making a Vallez tequila, I just. When you told me that, I just made the assumption, you know, those tequilas are. Those agaves are going there. But this does have a. The minerality and the vegetableness of Avaya's. Tequila.
So it confused me on the side of this doesn't taste like highlands agave, you know, so that, that makes a lot of sense.
So everything from the region of Eda now and. And I'm an amate for your agaves.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: Yes, yes, for all my production, even this production that we did with Ileana, it's all lowland agave, all estate grown from each respective factory. I know that for Ileana's production we. We use the. Her family, the Gavi as well.
So they're all very high quality agave, obviously all certified organic and all with a minimum of six and a half years, if not longer. Wow.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Okay, so what did they do cooking method here for?
[00:17:48] Speaker B: So ever since we were doing it with these guys back in the day, we've been a clay orno producer and we, we didn't want to change the method. So, you know, we did Horno, we did the Trenda Molinda, which is my goodness, what's my. What's the word in English?
Grinding belt, if I'm not mistaken. Okay. Yeah, we did the grinding belt and natural yeast with. I know we involved the proprietary strand that started the brand thanks to CRT for that one.
And so we've tried to maintain the consistency since the beginning. Obviously there are going to be changes due to the machinery and the region water.
There will be slight differences, but we try to keep it as constant and consistent as possible.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Yeah, but keep it in a similar water source and staying in that area, your water and that minerality is going to be consistent. And for. And grinder belt also. Is roller mill correct?
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes, correct.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: So I think just like a three pass, three pass or four pass roller mill.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: We did three pass on ours, but, but yeah, we, we. That's how we've been produced for many, many years. We wanted to maintain that consistency.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: So when you do the proprietary yeast, are you using that as a starter yeast and then the rest is wild or are you doing that yeast and kind of keeping a closed fermentation so nothing else influences?
[00:19:14] Speaker B: No, we use that. We incorporate the wild yeast as well. Um, I know that's what we did with this 1480 production with Eliana. It was strictly wild just because we're very good and we wanted to maintain some aspects of her production. Um, but yes, with the 1522 production, that is so strictly wild. And with the 1480, there's some aspects of the original.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: Oh, gotcha. Okay. Very cool. And then twice distilled. Are they using stainless steel with copper coils or all copper Stainless steel copper coils.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: Stainless steel copper coils.
[00:19:46] Speaker A: And then post post distillation, pre bottling. Are they doing some resting, aeration, oxygenation or is it going straight to bottle?
[00:19:57] Speaker B: No, we, we do rest it. I believe it's 48 hours of resting and then the. Well obviously the aging will play into effect with the replica and the 110. Sure, sure. And then there's also the high proof of the blanco and the repo that we also produce. So each one has its own unique characteristics over the resting. But the standard 48 hours of rest after production, very cool.
[00:20:21] Speaker A: And then going into the repo. What kind of barrels are you aging in?
[00:20:26] Speaker B: For all my production it's single use bourbon barrels.
Um, and we found that that maintained also the consistency that it had before and it helped us to achieve a similar flavor profile.
[00:20:39] Speaker A: How many months are you doing repo?
[00:20:42] Speaker B: We say an approximate of about eight months. It depends on the heat. Obviously if there's a bigger angel share due to the higher weather, then we might not rest as long. So I say I give the range between 8 to 10 months and probably.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: More resting to taste than you are at the time. Right.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: You're tasting going and that'll. That'll apply the same thing with my Anejo. It's a approximate of 20 months, but nothing fixed.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: And then are these same barrels, are you, are you bringing those with Ileana or are you always doing new barrels each time?
[00:21:15] Speaker B: Part of the key towards our transition was that we were going to be able to do from soup to knots with Ileana. So hence why we haven't produced any tequila with Ileana in these past three years.
Let's say three. Yeah, about approximately three years since we made that move. And everyone's asking, well you've been with Ileana for three years, where's your product? And I said, well, we've been wanted. We wanted to release something special as their first introduction. We. That's why we waited for an.
And eventually next year we'll do our extra ano as a welcome to the market with Ileana. So to answer your question, it was a weird. We could. We got the barrels through her as.
[00:21:53] Speaker A: Well and, and exciting that your production method doesn't have to change now that she has a brand new masonry oven right there at the door. That's pretty exciting to see that get put in there and know that those are going to be options there.
[00:22:08] Speaker B: Yeah. No, even our, our current production, the ano that was produced with Indiana, so I don't know if you aware but Fun fact, they. They operate two distilleries with Ileana, so they have the famous now 1522. And then her father also has another one.
If you have ever been where the palapa is, there's a.
There's another distillery right there. And that one had the masonry oven that we used.
[00:22:32] Speaker A: Oh, gotcha. So you produced over there at that oven?
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Yes, yes, we produced, we cooked there and then we grounded over here.
[00:22:41] Speaker A: I have to say, though, to sit and eat cooked agave out of their autoclave done at a low pressure, is some of the juiciest, most flavorful cooked agave I've had in all of the region. And I, I've ate out of a lot of stone ovens, a lot of autoclaves, and I'm not that anti autoclave guy, because done right, you know, done, you know, sure, doing it post diffuser, that's not a great product. But doing it low pressure, you can create a great, you know, great agave flavor, great cooked agave flavor out of that. So I'm not one of those guys. It's like, oh, no, you know.
But I was excited to see them get that stone oven there. And that's pretty awesome that you used the one up the street and then brought it down. That's pretty cool.
[00:23:29] Speaker B: No, absolutely. And that was a part of our focus was we always. We always had to be a clay oven. But I know that Iliano's also produced, we have a, let's say, a relatively new brand called Divertido that we produce a lot for the Texas market and other New Orleans and what have you. And that one was using a low pressure autoplay with Ilana, so I can second that notion. Ilana knows what she's doing and we have a lot of trust in her for sure.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: That distillery just constantly kicks out amazing products all of the time. And, you know, there's a lot of invention happening there all the time as well. And you know, there's another master distiller that hangs out in there that has some. Them, some great ideas and kind of a weird master scientist as well. So it's pretty cool when those two get together and start aging things in old wine barrels and come up with all these tricks is pretty cool.
[00:24:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I've told his ear a few times as well.
But no, no, I have. One thing I've always appreciated about Ileana is that she allows us to be as hands on as we want to be.
And that's something that, from speaking from personal experience, that's not always the case.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: So it allows our brand to stand out even though there might be others produced there. And I know that allows a Runway to eventually create our own distillery in the, in the region with her.
[00:24:45] Speaker A: Oh, that's awesome.
So what's the time frame of 1522 product hitting the States, which is the.
[00:24:55] Speaker B: Time frame is a very common question I'm getting these days. Many people are anti to try it.
We're, we're still deciding the proofing that we're going to do with it and we're finalizing the labels and we're aiming for. End of this year is coming up very quick. So it'll probably be early next year that you'll see it on the shelf. I know there was some special editions involved with Quatropas in the past and we want to do a nod to one of those special editions, especially Felizineco. I won't go too much into detail but there is a conservation effort that was always tagged with cuadracopas and the sea turtle protection programs. And so we're going to do a nod back to uh, one of those special edition Bibles that we had produced a few years ago and it'll be a reinvention of that with Ileana.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: That is very cool. And is the plan to stay with the, the one tens that you have as well and keep that, that super high proof of a 110 and in your different SKUs or selections?
[00:25:59] Speaker B: Yeah, the 1 10s came about due to demand. Um, I know that we had produced our extra Niepo and that one sold out in about two weeks and we haven't been able to produce X ray. Yep. Until this coming year just due to the fact that you have to age it. So it's a good problem to have.
But the 110s have been popular lately. I know when we first came out the market didn't really know what to do with them and I consider us a little bit early and premature these days.
They've been growing in popularity and interest.
So I just think it's a change of the market itself and that's become a staple in our line. We might experiment a little bit more with different proofings down the road, but I know the, the 110 has been very popular so far.
[00:26:41] Speaker A: The 110 in the Anejo, it's about half gone because that's the one I've been.
And I'm not an Anejo sipper, I'm a blanco drinker. But the 110 gives me that the punch of agave the flavor of really strong agave with, with a little bit kiss of the barrel. And it's enough barrel that you taste it, you get a little bit of that butterscotch and that, that I call it musty. It always sounds bad. But when. You'll know when I say it. When you walk in the room of a barrel house and you get that, that smell that's kind of, you know, wood and wet wood and kind of, kind of moldy, almost smelling like a.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: Freshness to the air that you feel. Right. Like it's a little bit cool at that. Yeah, I don't know. I understand what you're saying.
[00:27:28] Speaker A: But you also get that dirty, that dirty wood smell. Right? The.
It's a real common smell. I live two hours from, from Louisville. So when we go to a bourbon place and you walk into one of those bourbon barrel houses and you're just like, wow, the alcohol, the wood, the that, that, that wet wood smell, that smell is like so good to me. And I, I pick that up. But instead of it overpowering like a lot of anejos do, the agave kind of blows right through it because that proof is there and it's, it is so good. Now I usually go to sleep a little bit earlier drinking a 110 on Yeho, but I, I do really love it. So that's pretty awesome.
What was your thoughts in doing those originally? Like if, if they weren't popular at the time, how did you guys go? Let's make a 110 and a 110 on Yeho.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: It was due to my, actually my importer's request. My importer is Henry Price.
He's been in the industry for over 50 years and he's been an amazing partner of ours. He was the first importer of Tesoro Luxardo Cherries Jagermeister. So he has this, this pedigree in the spirits industry that very few can, can match. And so we, we. He fell in love with Quantacopa many years ago and said hey, I'm getting asked for a high proof. Would you dare create the expression and see how it goes? And I said absolutely. And Henry's been a great mentor of mine personally as well just to how to navigate the market. And I know thanks to his influence we're currently in about 25 to 30 states here in the U.S. italy and soon to be fingers crossed in Argentina as well.
[00:29:05] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: So Henry's really been great mentor and we've become close friends. Him and his daughter Nikki have been amazing partners of ours. Over the years. So to answer your question, it was thanks to Henry's advice and guidance that we decided with production, um, and that's what made it special.
[00:29:24] Speaker A: Did you dive right into making all three in. In the high proof, or did you just start with the blanco high proof and then go, oh, let's, hey, let's put some in a barrel, or did you do all three right off the bat?
[00:29:36] Speaker B: We actually were. Were a little bit. I don't know if it was naive, but we did all three at the same time.
Um, and we wanted to make sure that we produced enough to not run out in the market. Cause at that time, this was, you know, a few years ago, the common phrasing that was in the industry was if we. If a distributor wants to pick you up regionally, you don't want to have to run out of product because then they're going to give that shelf space to somebody else.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: So, which is so different than how it is today, where it's all about craft batches, limited runs. If it's out, it's out. You miss the chance, you know, all that, which is going to be the case with my next release.
But it's so interesting how the market is changing and you have to kind of go by way by what it's dictating. So, yeah, we did all three Cs to start.
[00:30:27] Speaker A: That's really. That's a bold idea, especially when you did it. And I seen somebody, it's been a few months ago, they posted this is the first ever 110 on Yeho. And as I was typing, I seen a 4 kopas, 4 copas, 4 kopas. And like, other people were so. I didn't even comment because everybody was chiming in right away that, no, that's not the first 110 on Yeho. And, you know, now you're starting to see them. Now you're getting, you know, 47s and 48s. And I had the opportunity to sip through a barrel this weekend in one that hasn't been proved down yet. So it was at 60.89.
And I'm like, can you leave it like this? And they're like, nope.
So to me, that higher proof is so fun and, and so interesting and so, so much more complex flex than, you know, your regular 40s. So I. That I applaud you for putting that together. That is really impressive.
[00:31:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a brave decision back in the day, but our mindset was, well, how do we create the most authentic Anejo that we can possibly produce? To the point where you're not diluting any of it. So we, we dared to go the highest proof. And even still today it's not. And you do see some, but not many people are willing to go as high as 110.
[00:31:43] Speaker A: What was the thought process of going for the certificate of certified organic and then an additional one that's also hard to get. How did you go back and also do kosher and what was your reasoning for putting that on the bottle and making that happen?
[00:32:00] Speaker B: So the certification was granted in about 2006, 2007, and nobody had ever thought of it before. We wanted a, a way for people to identify us as one of being a pioneering spirit. But two, we wanted to have an outside source verify the level and the standard of care that we take to produce such a amazing tequila. So many times it's all by word of mouth and trust to the master distiller or to the factory if it has a certain pedigree to it. For example, if a Camarena family member will come and say, hey, this is how we do it. Most of the time, they're going to believe you just because of the pedigree that they have. In our case, we didn't have that kind of pedigree. So we wanted a way to, to, to show to the world, hey, this is a way that makes us special. And nobody else has been daring to go down that road because it's an expensive process to pay the certification yearly to make sure everything's really buttoned up through all the inspections, especially through the kosher side. The rabbi comes once a year in our case, because I know there's different certifications that you can get within OK Kosher, which is our certified entity. There's a few kosher companies, but OK Kosher, we found, have been the most strict.
And the rabbi has always been great partners with us. And so that keeps us really honest. I mean, the whole additive free movement has developed, but we've always been additive free and we wanted to prove it to the world due to the certification. Not that it's 100% bulletproof because you can add organic additives to it, but the amount of additives that you can add, especially while being kosher as well, is very, very limited. And why would we want to go through that when we were the world's first organic tequila? It makes no sense. So we wanted to be pioneering in that, in that respect, and wanted to take advantage of an opportunity in the market that wasn't developed yet.
[00:33:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great.
That transparency is so important. And that kind of leads me to a good question. What is your thoughts of what, you know, tequila matchmaker and now, you know, the agave matchmaker and all the turmoil that they've gone through, but kind of the precedent that they've helped set in the industry. What, what's your thoughts on what Grover and them have done and where that program is today and where do you think it'll go in the future?
[00:34:13] Speaker B: The whole additive free movement did shake up the industry.
It was something that nobody had dared to explore.
Just because there is a, I call it a gray hand in the industry.
There's always one way or another that, that it's influenced. But Grover was, was brave. I consider him very daring to challenge the established culture that's down there, especially from what we consider an outsider's perspective.
And you know, there was a lot of change and as you mentioned, turmoil, but at the end of the day it's for the benefit of the industry and it pushes and makes people uncomfortable. But a lot of good change has come by way of that. In our case, that that whole change has been able to highlight our legacy of always being able to do it right. And unfortunately there's been other brands that are on the other side of the spectrum that haven't been able to be so positive about it. But at the end of the day, the consumer always wins. So we believe that this is something beneficial. We're always going to be there to support Grover and his initiatives going forward.
And I hope he views for COPA as a friend and a brand that will support his ambitions.
[00:35:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I really feel for them and all the challenges they've gone through. And there's so many tequila people out there that have learned so much about tequila because of the information put out there.
And to have that comfort, to know that you can go somewhere and find transparency and information is really helpful.
And I do think it's helped change some brands mentality. You know, I've been invited to go to some distilleries where they're like, hey, we're going to show you everything. And there's our column stills in our diffuser and this tequila goes in those. And this tequila is only stone oven and you know, wood fermentation and copper stills and, and they want to be transparent, they want to share it. But then it seems like the CRT kind of cut everybody's legs off on being able to actually talk about it and be open about it. So I'm glad that you're here, you know, sharing the information and Sharing how your tequila is made, because that's important to the consumer.
[00:36:20] Speaker B: No, absolutely. And I think at the end of the day, our whole goal is that the consumer wins and the more growth that there is in the category, the better for everyone.
And I know sometimes it may be counterintuitive to think that different brand owners are technically rivals, but we're all in the same boat. So I've actually maintained friendly friends, friendly relationships with many of the brand owners just because we, we're tequila lovers first and tequila owner second.
[00:36:45] Speaker A: I have found that, that knowing as many brand owners that I know that so many of them are such good friends, they don't look at it as competition. It's really bringing people to the category. Gosh, if I drink your tequila, I also want to try evolution 1250. That's another great tequila. Right? So when you talk to Todd and you talk to Jimmy and you talk to Alan, you start talking to all these people that sometimes are all in the same distillery, sometimes they're at the distillery down the road.
They don't care. Like it's, it's, how can we raise up each tequila in each brand? And that, that's what I try to do here. The brands that I can share and talk about that I'm really impressed with the way they make their tequila. I'd love to lift them up any way that I can. And doing this is one of those. So I appreciate you taking your time to do this.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: No, thank you. I know that for us, we consider ourselves a small, family owned brand.
You know, we put a lot of heart and soul and passion into what we do and we want to respect the history and the legacy of the region.
So in our little way where we contribute our small grain of sand, we want to share our story. And you know, I'm grateful for you as well, for giving us a platform to be able to tell that story.
[00:37:57] Speaker A: Even a small grain of sand makes a big ripple in the ocean when you watch how far it goes. And that's literally what you've done, is you've made a ripple in this and made a tequila that people know about. So that's pretty fantastic. So I love to ask this question to people because when you have a brand and you're working as hard as you do, and most people don't realize, don't have a clue how hard it is to be a brand owner. Being a brand owner isn't just cashing checks and drinking tequila at home, figuring out how to navigate the CRT and the United States government and Our three tier system and getting tequila into stores and liquor to lips is a ton of work that most of no idea. And I didn't have any idea until I've got to know so many of you. So after all this blood, sweat and tears and history and hard work, if you could sit down and pick one of your bottles, your favorite bottle of tequila that you make, pour a glass and share it with somebody and share the story and talk about it and give them a bottle and, and hear what they have to say. It, it can be anybody in history, alive, dead, famous, whoever.
Who would you want to sit down with and truly share a glass of this tequila with?
[00:39:18] Speaker B: Oh, that's a very good question.
Very deep one. Maybe you call me a romantic or sentimentalist. I never had the chance to meet my grandfather, the legendary Ventura Orozco, which is very well known.
All I hear of legends ever since I was a child, I'm actually named after him. My middle name is Ventura. So I would open up a bottle of four Copas and I would be honored to spend, even if it was 30 minutes talking with him, just based on his story. He started off as a very poor farmer near around us in a town called Egid.
And there's actually a family saint that's there right now in the lands where he was born. And he worked his butt off.
At that time he was a cloth salesman.
So back before clothes was actually being already produced, customers would come and buy pieces of garments and buy defeat or by the meter in his case. And he ended up becoming somebody very well known and very prosperous in the region and becoming one of Adana's largest landowners for many, many years.
So he ended up passing a few years before I was born. But he would be the one individual who I would just love to pick his brain, get some inspiration from, ask what his goal and vision was for this. At that time, a tiny town of Arandes, which didn't really have much going on, people planted agave just to avoid squatters rights and to have your land taken. But yeah, he would be a massive inspiration for me. And based on the legends and the stories that are still being told in town, he's a man of great respect and somebody I would love to learn from.
[00:41:05] Speaker A: Man, that would be so cool too, to, to hear some of the history from him, right? Not, not the stories that you've heard or the stories that I've heard about the city, but to hear somebody be able to sit down and share their battles and their hard times and then their victories. And how. And then for him to see the city today, I mean, that would be, that would be. That'd be awesome. That'd be very cool. So it's very cool.
[00:41:28] Speaker B: That would be. It'd be quite a transformation. Yes. Now, my grandfather and hear his connection to a lot of these original families, the Banuelos family, the Camarena family, and just being able to hear his legends and his recites from the words of other people has been very inspirational. So, yeah, there's a lot of little quirks that you end up finding out about andas that was responsible to his fundraising or his management of the town and their development. It'd be fascinating to see.
[00:42:02] Speaker A: Yeah, that's very cool. All right, so tell everybody where they can find you on social media.
[00:42:08] Speaker B: You can find for Copas at Quatrocopas on Instagram on X. You can also follow me at Rafael Agave on Instagram. That's where I mainly post a lot of my stories and a lot of the legends that are surrounding the brand and any amazing developments that we have going forward.
Be on the lookout for our very first special edition with Juliana Partido and more stories about our historic world's first organic tequila.
[00:42:36] Speaker A: Fantastic states that you're located in.
[00:42:39] Speaker B: We're located in a little bit of everywhere. Minnesota, Texas, Illinois, New York, California, Arizona.
We're all across the country. South Carolina, Florida.
So I always say we're everywhere, nowhere.
And be on the lookout and support, you know, where you can, and I know my family would be more than grateful and you know, support a small family owned brand from a, a local who, who really appreciate it.
[00:43:13] Speaker A: 100 website. You guys have a web address?
[00:43:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:16] Speaker A: For Copas.com here's going to be my request.
I'm going to be in Matatan in January and I'm going to be running Iliana's 10k run that she does for a charity there in town.
[00:43:31] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: And are you, are you a runner? Are you going to be running that?
[00:43:36] Speaker B: She hasn't asked. I know she runs the whole half marathon. She'd mentioned it to me in the past. If you're going, I can't guarantee, but it'll make it much more likely that I'll join you.
[00:43:47] Speaker A: Well, here's what I was saying. If you're not gonna run, I need you at the water stations handing out those special releases of Cuatro Corpus to keep me going to finish.
[00:43:58] Speaker B: Okay, I like that. So let's plan on it. Nothing. I'm a very runner. I'm very lanky.
[00:44:04] Speaker A: So.
[00:44:05] Speaker B: But I'd love to join you, but.
[00:44:07] Speaker A: That'll be great. Well, I really appreciate your time tonight. I know that you're a busy person, and to come sit and talk to somebody on the Internet is not probably always your favorite thing to do, so I. I really appreciate your time. I appreciate the tequila. I appreciate your story. This is really awesome. And I can't wait to meet you in person and taste all of the. The new things that you have coming out. So thank you. Thank you very much.
[00:44:28] Speaker B: Absolutely. Thank you very much, Brad. And hopefully we can connect to next time and cheers over some good tequila.
[00:44:34] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:44:35] Speaker B: All right. Thank you, my friend.
