Shawn Miller Shares Tequila Secrets You Never Knew!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, guys, tonight you're going to be fired up about this one. What do all of these brands have in common? Package Group. That's right. The importer that brings them in. And they have worked so hard to make these special brands be available to you. And today we're going to sit down with Sean Miller, and he's going to talk about the whole process of not only finding these brands, but other products that they're bringing to the market. So stick around. This one is pretty fantastic. It's tasting tequila with bread. [00:00:32] Speaker B: Foreign. [00:00:35] Speaker A: Well, I'm honored to be sitting here with Sean Miller, the man, the myth, the legend, the guy that brings amazing agave spirits to us folks here in the States. Sean, how you doing today? [00:00:45] Speaker B: Hey, Brad. I'm. I'm well, thank you. Thanks for having me virtually in your. [00:00:49] Speaker A: In your bar. So tell everybody a little bit about who you are and what your journey into tequila and agave spirits look like. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Sure. Well, my company is Package Group. As you. I'm repping the brand. We are importers of agave spirits from Mexico. We started this with my partner, Jeff Ernst, almost 10 years ago now. We started that journey at a very great place. We started it with G4 tequila that you have in front of you there. It was in a really rough spot at that time, but it was a lovely place to start or a lovely brand to start with. We have a business which is importing the tequila into the United States. Importing is a function of compliance and finance. Basically, it's a lot of paperwork and financial and paying for product and financing the movement of the product. And we do all of that. But uniquely on top of that, we do all of the marketing, communication, and PR and all of those things on behalf of the brands that we work with. Not to disappoint anybody if they're a hardcore G4 fan. But the reality is everything you see on social media, from G4 Tequila as an example, is coming, in fact, from. From me. So that's. That's the. That's the twist, the plot twist in the story for some. [00:01:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I would. I had no idea. I knew that you do a lot of social media. [00:02:02] Speaker B: Your. [00:02:03] Speaker A: Your website has an amazing collection of videos. [00:02:07] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:08] Speaker A: And your YouTube videos are awesome. So that was one of the questions I was going to have for you. Are you the mastermind behind all of this great social media that I see? [00:02:16] Speaker B: Well, yes, yes and no. So I. I'm the mastermind of the. The social media and the. And the tactics of that. I've. I've been doing social since AOL message boards. MySpace. Right. I've been doing social since you had to know HTML to make a post. But then which I just had a meeting with Google by the way with their acceleration team and I think the oldest person in the room was maybe 24 and they, they thought that was fascinating. But anyway, that's my old guy story for the day. But we actually have an entire team. We have a packaged Mexico team which is in Leon, Guanajuato, which is only maybe an hour and a half from around us on the shirt that you're wearing there. So not too far from the tequila area and we have a whole team there. So when you see the package tv, the package films, the beautiful Capitan Paloma documentary that we released just a couple of days ago that is made and produced entirely by my Mexican team in Leon. So they are extremely talented and able to, to really dive deep into the stories of the producers that we work with and, and to tell those stories beautifully. [00:03:18] Speaker A: No, those videos are awesome. I've watched several of them and I seen the post of the premiere of the one you were just speaking of incredible stuff. So it's really great video work well and it's. [00:03:30] Speaker B: And it's not. It's a really detailed storytelling. So Juan Pablo Eloriaga is my partner there in the, in the, in the package Mexico. And Juan Pablo is a documentary filmmaker. So he comes by this very, very naturally and, and tells a story that's very different than. Than when we just launched a documentary about Mezcal. And there's nothing about making Mezcal a documentary. It's all, it's all about the people that are making the mezcala and a very heart warming and touching and challenging and personal journey story. [00:04:07] Speaker A: It really showed what I learned about going to Mexico years ago that yeah, the tequila is great and how they make it is really wonderful. But the people, the tradition and how much those people put their hearts out there in everything they do, that that's the story that really people need to see. [00:04:25] Speaker B: The thing that I learned since the start, but all the time, some things are very different. Some things are the same. And one of the things that are the same is mo. You know, most of these are multi generational family businesses in Indianapolis. Not a lot of businesses transition to one generation. But then you talk about 3, 4, 5. Wow. Right? That's not, that's not easily done. So that, that begets a lot of personal drama and story and family struggle and siblings that are great at the business and siblings that suck at the business, but they're siblings and dad that just won't die and leave. Leave us alone and let us do our thing. Right. And all of these sort of scenarios that happen in a family business. And. And they're. That's very, very real in a lot of these people's stories. Right? [00:05:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. The generational depth in tequila and Mezcal is amazing. [00:05:18] Speaker B: It's really. Yeah. And so sometimes it's fantastic and brilliant and helpful and sometimes it's a real pain in the ass. Right. So this is the story. You get to hear part of the story on both sides of that from a mother and father in the case of Carlos, whose families both made Mezcal and then. And then Carlos makes Mezcal. But this is. It's all you get to. You'll have to watch Capitan Palomo to hear the whole thing. [00:05:40] Speaker A: Absolutely. I'll share a link right here, right now. You can click on that link and go check it out because it's a really awesome video. So have you always been an agave spirits tequila guy? [00:05:51] Speaker B: Not at all. No, no, no. When we got involved in the tequila business, Jeff and I are marketers. So first of all, we've been friends since we were 12 years old. We've been in business together since we were 17 years old. And we've done a lot of things over the years, but always with the hub around marketing and then the aspects of business development that one has in do marketing and the aspects of fulfillment and communication, you know, that has one being successful at doing marketing. So we had a marketing agency package, has been around for quite some time actually as a marketing agency specializing in digital social media content. And then G4 Tequila came along as a client and that was a life changing thing for us. It turns out I had no idea of that at the time, but that's definitely the case now. In fact, two weeks ago, I became half Mexican. I mean, this is. We're in this. We are really, really in this. Like, this is. This is not just a little part of what we do. [00:06:49] Speaker A: What was your drink of choice before you came into tequila? [00:06:53] Speaker B: What. [00:06:53] Speaker A: What was your. What was your jam? [00:06:55] Speaker B: Well, at that time, you know, I live. If anyone knows anything about West Michigan, where I live, I live in the town of New Holland Brewing. I live adjacent to Founders Brewing. I lived up there just up the road from. From Bell's. So we're. We're really in. In a hotbed of micro brewing. I didn't frankly drink very much, but what I did would be to go to New Holland and have whatever it was that they were. Whatever they were happened to be doing. Right? [00:07:18] Speaker A: Yeah. So then the introduction into G4 and Felipe was they. They actually reached out to you to say hey, we, we want to help marketing. Is that what they. [00:07:28] Speaker B: Well, the plot twist is that there was a. There was a character who was supposedly had the import agreements 4G4. He turned out to be an actual criminal, defrauded many, many investors and also defrauded fe. And in the process of that there was a guy that we knew who's actually from in northern north northwest corner of Indiana was, was the largest investor and he ended up with the, the import rights. And so when coming into G4 for us was not even ground zero, it was worse. We came into an actual dumpster fire situation. Ground zero would have been hard enough when we started in a hole. His. His name is Ross and Ross reached out to us to help because he ended up with the. The rights to import the product. No interest. He's a heavy construction guy. He really had no interest in doing that work. He thought he was just an investor, so. Or he was just an investor. Right. So we got called because we were honest and we were good marketers. We had a good reputation in the Chicago area. Hopefully we still do. And we got the calls to, to help with a project. And my good friend Jeff has always has just enough ego to say, well we can figure that out. So he's always happy to do that. And, and when the time came shortly there after to also help to sell the product, Jeff again had just enough ego to say, well, we sold lots of things. We can do that too. Right. So we, we set about the, the task of trying to find distribution. So that, and, and like I said, we, we. For those that don't know if you fast forward, it's nearly 10 years now, G4 is for several years in a row the fastest growing brand in the United States. We're selling more tequila in the United States than Cieta Leguas. We're selling more than Felipe's father's brand, which is, which is El Tesoro Don Felipe that many people might know. You probably have a bottle on the back bar back there. El Tesoro, you have a bottle of Siet Leguas. Right. So those are, those are two brands that I in particular had marked as we passed them in sales. And they just went, right, this is an amazing success path, right, that we've been on. And since that time I, we just referenced the Mezcal brand since that Time. We are working with a couple of other producer owned tequila brands. We're working with Mezcal also now from Oaxaca, Mezcal also from Durango. And we're also importing racia. So this, so this has just turned into a, a complete agave nerd fest over here. And, and this is what, this is what we do. [00:09:53] Speaker A: Well, there's some agave nerds out here like me that are so excited that you do it. [00:09:57] Speaker B: Yeah, thank you. We appreciate it. And we enjoy the, you know, we're very, very grateful to agave nerds. And it's very important to the success of G4. And G4 is widely recognized, certainly among the top three or four brands of the agave nerd community. And we've approached them. You, me, we've approached us with a brand advocacy initiative since day one. And we've always had a very, very heavy educational format, a very transparent format. We aligned beautifully with the additive free movement. The timing of that worked very, very well for us. But the thing, you know, some people haven't been around this very long. So I always like to remember, I always remind people a story. When we got started in Chicago and then we went in California, we got started in California. Because the brand owners were friends. We aligned by their recommendation with Fortaleza, Arete and Don Fulano. Now at that time, nearly 10 years ago, nobody gave a shit enough about G4, Fortaleza, Don Fulano, Orrete, that we could even afford our own table at a tasting event. So we traveled together, we would show things together, and we would beg people to try authentic tequila together. So this is the journey we're on. Of course, now you can't begin to buy a bottle of Fortaleza. You can find Arete in any bar in the United States. And we're selling literally multiplications. We've grown over 1,000% in the last 3 years with G4. So it's, it's an extraordinary thing that's happened and we're just remarkably grateful for the opportunity. It's. It's been really, really, really, really something. It's a. It seems silly to call it life changing. That's not that enough of the impact in our world. [00:11:45] Speaker A: So it has to be. I mean, it's, you know, in Indiana we don't have a lot of great choices for tequila. And I can now find with. Really within the last year, I can find G4 just about everywhere. And that's cool. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Well, we had to make a distributor change for that. And when we did that change that really unlocked the state for us. In Indiana, we're selling literally 10, 10 x multiples of product. And in Indiana now, as previously, I. [00:12:12] Speaker A: Think that's because I can find G4. [00:12:15] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it was, we, that's just the path of distribution. And I had a call earlier today with a group of startup brand owners and we had discussions about demand and distribution and how you, you know, all of these things. So great. Now I'm the, all of a sudden somehow I'm the old man in a room full of young people asking me, how did we do it? [00:12:35] Speaker A: Yeah, well you, you have the track record to do it, so. [00:12:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's just a, it's just a funny. I'm not, I don't, I don't have enough ego to be like, okay, well here's what I think. I know, right? And that, and that's all, that's all I can tell them. [00:12:51] Speaker A: That's probably another reason why things have worked out well. Because you, you're not a person that's letting their ego be out there in front of, oh, look at me. [00:12:58] Speaker B: You're. [00:12:59] Speaker A: The times that I've met you and the videos I've watched that you've been on it, it's really been about the brands and about those brand owners. And I think it's really neat that the brands that I know that you currently work with, you're all working with brand owned brands or what some of. [00:13:14] Speaker B: Us call the house brands, we call producer owned brands. Yeah, that's the term that we've, we've used. So there, there are three, three pegs to our stool, Brad. For, for, for package group and producer owned is one. And what, what that means to your, to the audience is that the, the family that makes the product owns the brand and that's economically massively impactful for their family and their community in a way that I don't think we have time to really understand and I didn't understand up front, but lots of distilleries fill lots of bottles for lots of affluent people around the world or in big corporations and celebrities and these sorts of things. And they can in fact make money from that. They can employ people from that. That's good business to do. But it will not. Generational wealth will not come from that activity. Right. And in really changing the community will not come from that activity. So the, the real money is in the brand value. And if that's owned by some basketball player or something, that doesn't, that doesn't help that community ultimately. Right. So, so we, we didn't and I did. I had no idea about this in the beginning, but I understand it clearly now and we found purpose to that mission. The second thing, the product, for us, it must be a world class in its quality. What that means essentially is you might well like Lalo better than G4, and that's fine right with me. I don't have a problem with that. But what I'm saying is if I say the G4 is class, I mean, it's a world class representation of what it is, right? It's what it's supposed to be. And there's no, there's no better representation of what is tequila than is G4 than just in the. And the same would apply to a cognac or a vodka or something, right? It's a world class representation of what it is. And what we tell the producers is that we're responsible for selling the first bottle and they're responsible for selling the second and third bottles. And when. What I mean by that for them is it's extraordinarily hard to put that bottle on a shelf in the United States and then to get somebody to pick it up, that's really freaking hard. But what also is difficult is when you pour that in your glass and you smell it and you taste it and you feel like you got value for your money, right? What I paid for this was reasonable, right? I got a good value for it and I enjoyed it and I shared it and I drank it. I want another one, right? That's a whole other deal. And that's how the brand grows. The last, the last tool for us we call transparent. And I use the term lightning did not strike when I did say additive free a minute ago, and lightning did not strike, but I'm not allowed to say that anymore. So strike that from the record twice. And let's just say what. What our producers do is entirely transparent. There's nothing secret about it. And we go so far as to say if there were some sort of additive or avocante. Not that there is, but we would tell you, right? And that's the way that we operate as the marketing of G4. It's always very, very specific, exactly what's going on, how it's done, why it's done that way, complete transparency. And everybody that we work with, it's complete transparency, who owns it, how they do it, where they do it, why they do it. It's all transparent. And we do the same thing as our own as well, right? That's how packaged operates Entirely. [00:16:48] Speaker A: What? And all you have to do is visit Elpendio and have Edgar walk you through absolutely everything. And the last time we were there, he's like, look, I'll show you something, but don't take any pictures because it's not out yet. And I want you to see it, but I don't want anybody else to see it until the right time. [00:17:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:03] Speaker A: And it's funny that. So nothing's hidden, not even the new stuff that's coming out. Right. [00:17:08] Speaker B: So. And there's no doors that you may not open. There's nothing that you may not look into. Right. And that's. And that's. And that. That's Frank. Quite unusual on touring in the. In the tequila industry, there's usually. Well, that building. You don't go over there. Right. That's pretty normal in the tequila world. [00:17:27] Speaker A: There wasn't definitely a no smoking sign in the front when you first got there either. [00:17:33] Speaker B: Well, for those. I always say that. And I don't have a good nose, so I was not born with a good nose. It's just my. My dumb luck. But in the tasting notes from G4, if you're a real aficionado, there will be a hint of Modelo and Marlboro red. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. [00:17:50] Speaker B: If there's not, it's just not G4. [00:17:53] Speaker A: You made when Felipe was out of town. [00:17:57] Speaker B: Maybe. I'm pretty sure it's in the walls in the. You know, I think you're right. [00:18:03] Speaker A: Well, the facility is amazing and the new growth there is awesome. I know that's attributed to a lot of what you guys have been able to do. Are there any new G4 products that are about to pop out on the market that people may not know about? [00:18:15] Speaker B: Well, I think the thing we. There is a release coming that's, as you mentioned, that you were not allowed to talk about that will be coming toward the fall. That's become an annual release now, which is a Dia de Muertos edition, which is going to be some kind of a wood fermented product in a special presentation that's coming for sure in the short term. Actually already shipped depending on when this airs. Felipe wanted to bear honor to the old labels. And a bunch of guys like you were down there poking at him about where they could find bottles of the old labels and wanting them for their collection. And there aren't any anymore that you used to. Used to. Could find them all over in. Around us. This is Maria Totanilco and they're just not around anymore. Us nerds poked him enough that he decided he needed to do a throwback labels. There's a. There will be some. We're calling it Classical. Very, very creative like that. Right. So we're calling it Classical and there will be a reposado and a Blanco G4 in A. In a white label that looks like the original Bull and Tohona and the script of G4. Right. So that, that will come. And those are. Those are a little bit unique blends of production and barrel aging as well. So not. Not just a label, but a little bit unique release also. [00:19:36] Speaker A: I didn't know that. We've seen the labels, but I didn't know that. You know, he didn't go into what they were doing with them. He just showed us the label. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It's not enough just to have the label. It's gotta. It's enough to. [00:19:46] Speaker A: True that. [00:19:47] Speaker B: Yeah. It's enough to. It's. It's not enough to just confuse everybody about the label. We have to. We have to also have a special release out of it. Right. [00:19:54] Speaker A: You know, it does help me come up with content to talk about it. [00:19:58] Speaker B: Sure does. And I was just at BCB in New York City last week and. And we had innumerable. Why are you changing the branding? Why this brand's so successful? What are you doing? I'm like, yeah, I'm an idiot. You know, I'm. Anyway, that's work. That's part of the fun of. Of Senor Felipe. Right. [00:20:15] Speaker A: Well, so you have another brand that I really enjoy that I'm excited that you guys are working with them. And that is El Vijito. [00:20:22] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:20:23] Speaker A: So my original tequila was the original Cabo Wabo, which came from 1107. And the actual Elvajito house brand. I would get that when I was in Mexico and I really enjoy it and I hear it's now coming around. Is it going to come to Indiana? [00:20:39] Speaker B: Eventually. We. This bottle is the El vijito bottle. It's 90 years old. It's a custom bottle. And the people, people are fantastic. The tequila is terrific. And los americanos no los angantan este botello. It's just not a. It just doesn't go well with the American consumer. It's short and squatty and has a screw cap. And it just doesn't suffice to the American consumer for the quality of the tequila that's in the glass. It's great. [00:21:09] Speaker A: It's great tequila. [00:21:11] Speaker B: Even though those of us that love the family and love the history have come to appreciate the bottle, the market doesn't want it. We have worked my, my designers are not label designers and what have you, but my designers from my team worked with Juan's team and have created a new. A new presentation, a new package presentation for, for El Vijito. So we will have. Sometime in the third quarter we will have production available and then we will do a national relaunch of the brand of Elvijito in a bottle that's a little bit taller and cleaner and a nice wooden cork and all of the things that gringos expect from a premium bottle of tequila. [00:21:50] Speaker A: Well, when this gringo goes to Mexico, he brings home that bottle. [00:21:55] Speaker B: Well and there. And that will still remain the same, I'm sure in Mexico. And, and that'll be. That'll create something for us guys to. [00:22:03] Speaker A: Hunt for when turn it into a scavenger hunt. [00:22:07] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I actually found in. In Chicagoland, Mike Moreno actually had some 1997 bottles of Elvijito Blanco and it. And I, I acquired a couple of cases of those just for my own collection. He may still have some if there are the folks in Chicago happen to see this. [00:22:31] Speaker A: I went in there when we were up there for the event. It's the first time I've ever been there and my wife and I made a deal. I had a, I had a bottle number and they. And. Or a budget number. [00:22:43] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. Yeah. [00:22:44] Speaker A: Because she knew that I would need to get a trailer to bring home the stuff that we can't get here. [00:22:49] Speaker B: All right. On. So our. And our other, our other tequila brand. I see on your, on your shoulder there is Elateo. Yes. And that's, that's our other, our other tequila mark, which is a startup brand. It's very small, but made in a, in a traditional way in around us. Moving to Romita. Guanajuato. The family's from Guanajuato. This is the family, the Villalobos family. These are the guys that got Guanajuato included in the denomination of origin of tequila and started the tradition of growing blueber in, in Romita. They set up production right by. Around us near the distillery, La Simiento, which is next door to La Altegna, Felipe's father's distillery, to get them started. Then they, they didn't have the tequila making people. They only had the, the agave tradition in Romita. So once they learn how to do it and they have some people trained, they'll, they'll move to up to Romita. It's about an hour and a half away. But the brand Is, is exclusively to Total Wine. It's nationwide now with Total Wine and they are selling it literally as fast as the guys can put it in the bottle. It's pretty remarkable. [00:24:01] Speaker A: It's fantastic tequila too. I, I have, I have this much left of this one. [00:24:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:06] Speaker A: And all of the other ones are gone, so I went ahead and it's yummy. I bought them all when I got up there. The still strength is the high proof. The big bang, I think is called that. That is one of my favorite high proof tequilas that I've had. It has a great minerality to it. Really nice cinnamon spice in the finish. The cooked agave is just an agave bomb. It is so good. [00:24:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it definitely has that cinnamon. Like Vivanco has a cinnamon flavor also. Right? That's a, it's a. It definitely has that, that cinnamon. [00:24:38] Speaker A: Yeah. It's such a great tequila and it's a great price. And like you said, it's easy to get if you got a Total Wine in your town. I mean, they, they have them there. I just haven't refilled the bottle. Got that bottle budget. [00:24:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, it's a, it's a. They're beautiful bottles and, and great people. Luis and Hal is a cool guy. His father's father's a cool guy and they're, they're. His brother is involved with the business also. And then, then they have Diana from Nacimiento helping them with the distilling part because as I said, it's new to them. They're. They're farmers, not, not producers. Diana's helping them and, and it's fun to see a 27 year old girl tell those guys what to do. So I enjoy that too. And they're just doing a terrific job. [00:25:22] Speaker A: So how did you come about picking up like Alateo and Elvajito? What was their process of you finding those guys? [00:25:29] Speaker B: Well, Elvijito came about, so a tail came about, let me say. So we're a little bit well known at this point, to be honest, for what we've done with G4 and in. In to be. So we have a little bit of recognition for what we've done with G4 and we're very grateful for that. And those that know Felipe know that he can be a bit of a difficult character as well. So we get a little extra credit from our Mexican friends for the work that we've done with G4. And so Ateo came to us asking for some of that. Right, whatever that is that you guys do. We want that Right. And that's been great because they're. That's been great for everybody because they're literally as fast as they can put the labels on the bottles. That's how fast they're selling. So that's. That's amazing. Elvijito came about. We don't do this anymore, but we used to do consultative projects, and we. We had done some. We had done some consultative projects, and we had started. Some people helped some people start a new brand called El Bandido. And we. We had helped them with that. And in the process of helping them create El Bandido, Jeff had found Juan Eduardo Nunez and the folks from Elvijito who are making the tequila for El Bandido. And we just. To be honest, we just absolutely fell in love with them. They're. They're wonderful, wonderful people. They're not on anybody's tour list. But let me tell you, if you ever get a chance to go to Elvijito and have a tour and have lunch, and it's. It's absolutely stunningly beautiful place and lovely people, and almost everything is outside. And Juan Guardo is a really into botanicals and flowers and trees, and it's just beautiful. And there are hummingbirds and flowers, and it's. It's just. It's just. It's my favorite. We. I went there. I'll tell you this. I went. Jeff and I went with our wives a while ago, and we had a free day, and we went and sat at El Vijito. We just sat outside. And that was of all of the things we could have done in the whole area of tequila. We chose to go sit at El Vijito and drink with Juan Eduardo. This is. This is how we spent our day. So that's how I feel about it. But, yeah, it came from that. And then they asked us if we would help them to bring the brand into the United States. And that's what we shall do. So that's. That's our task now. [00:27:49] Speaker A: Well, it's. That's one that I didn't get to visit last time we were there. And it's on my list because it's. It's my birth into tequila. So now I at least know who to message and say, I can make that happen. [00:28:02] Speaker B: I might have to go with you. [00:28:03] Speaker A: Well, I'll take you down with us. That'd be great. So I know you have a few Mezcals and also Racia, so if you could talk a little bit about your Mezcal brands and what those are, and then for the people that know Mezcal and know tequila, you know, when I bring up the word raisiya, people then look at me like crooked. They have never heard. [00:28:24] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So yeah. What's that? Weird? [00:28:27] Speaker A: A little bit. [00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. So, well, we have two mezcals. We have Mezcal Palomo from Oaxaca, which is from Mazatlan, Oaxaca, which is the, the heart of the mezcal industry. And we have in Carlos Mendez there, as I said earlier, a fourth generation producer and somebody who's that Mezcal tradition in Mazatlan came both sides of his family. And if you want to know about Carlos, you really watch Capitan palomo on, on YouTube, which we just launched and you'll know all about Carlos. And then to learn more about package, frankly, there's an adjacent video which we have a series of we call package tv. There are package films and package TV and there's an adjacent video of package TV which is we call Agave Diaries. And the, there's an Agave Diaries of the making of the documentary of, of Carlos Mendez. So it's a, it's a really cool opportunity to, to see both of those things together. It's a good watch. But yeah, Carlos is, is in Matatlan, it's the heart of Oaxaca and he's making Mezcal in the, in the most original way as one can do it today. He uses a variety of agave or as are available in Oaxaca, largely espadin, but a variety. He. He's doing horse drawn to hona cooking, underground fermentation and wood with fiber distillation and little copper pots with the fiber. It's just as traditional as can be and absolutely lovely. And it's frankly, it's inexpensive. There's no other way to say it. It's. It's an inexpensive bottle. A 700 of Paloma Espadine is like 32 bucks right at, at 46 ABV. It's so awesome, awesome, awesome product. Taking over bar barwells and cocktails all over the country. It's really, really exceptional product. And then we have from the far extreme, literally 20 hours drive to the north in the desert of Durango, we have a product called Ultramundo. So Mezcal out of this world is Ultramundo and that is from the desert in Durango. And that is an agave called Lamparillo which probably nobody's ever had. It's remarkably spicy and earthy and just, I mean extraordinary gastronomic experience. And it's not enough to tell you it's a tasting note. It's. It's a gastronomic experience. It's like nothing you've, you've ever had at any time. Hard to even imagine it, frankly, until you've tried it. Very, very special stuff. And to their story, fascinating story. They are the family that's making it. They, they are a reverse Mezcal story. So Carlos's story of fourth generation, fifth generation super normal in the mezcal industry, not serio. Sergio is a, is a second generation French immigrant from World War II time, which there are a lot of immigrants from, from Europe, in Mexico, from World War II time. His father is a veterinarian. He has a lot of success as a veterinarian and he dreamed to own a cattle ranch where he would raise prized and purebred cattle. This was his father's dream. And that's hard to do in Mexico to buy land like that. But he was friends with the man who was passing away and he sold him a 20,000 acre desert cattle ranch. Now they, they found out very quickly that it's really, really hard to make money with a cattle ranch, especially with a purebred fancy cattle ranch. So they started to look around in desperation. What can we do? What are we going to do? Like, we have a problem. And one of the problems was all of these spiky snaggle tooth agave that were biting their cow's legs and problematically everywhere. That gave the serio the idea, well, maybe we could make mezcal. And they don't make mezcal there. So he had to harvest one. He had to go all the way across Durango to the place where they do make mezcal and have them tell him that what he had was a very highly sought after and unusual wild agave and that if he could make Mezcal with it, he would have something beautiful. And that's kind of like my story. It's kind of taken over Sergio's life now. He's making Mezcal and he's making Sotol and he's built a little taverna on his ranch and it's an amazing place. And he's figuring out how to make the product and he's made, you know, we've helped to create a beautiful brand and it's really, really special. Is. Is ultramundo. So we're very, very excited about that one. That's. That's something pretty cool. [00:33:10] Speaker A: Wow. I have to search that one out. That sounds amazing. [00:33:13] Speaker B: Yeah, Ultra Ramundo. Yeah, it's easy, easy name to remember. And really, really remarkable. Not available in Indiana at this time, but it's getting around. You can definitely find it in Chicago. For sure. [00:33:24] Speaker A: I'm surely can find somebody that'll ship it to Indiana. [00:33:27] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Actually, you can ship it to Indiana. Right from our website, even from packagegroup.com we have a shop that. [00:33:33] Speaker A: I could get that. [00:33:34] Speaker B: Yeah, we have a bottle shop right on there, so. [00:33:36] Speaker A: Well, we'll put that. We'll put a link up here to that too. [00:33:40] Speaker B: The Maddie's. That's really good. That's really yummy tequila. [00:33:43] Speaker A: It is very yummy tequila. [00:33:45] Speaker B: We. We rescued that. That was. That was a product from. From an old Makila that had gone out of business and they had abandoned some tequila in barrels and we rescued that. So I like that very much. Actually, I have a case of that in my bar. Yeah, it's really delicious. [00:34:04] Speaker A: Jay and Matty were doing the bottle. They had a bottle signing down in Bloomington. [00:34:08] Speaker B: Yeah, Cool. [00:34:09] Speaker A: About an hour drive. And went down and met them for the first time and picked up a couple bottles. It's amazing stuff. Really good. [00:34:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it's awesome. Jay's a good friend and oddly so. Jay and I are both cornhuskers, and we had the opportunity to be friends before we were either one involved in tequila. [00:34:26] Speaker A: No kidding. [00:34:26] Speaker B: We're both Corn Huskers and we're both marketers, and that's a funny combination. And so we. We've actually been friends for a long time. So it's, it's, it's. I was very. It's very funny that we arrive in. In the tequila business at the same time. [00:34:39] Speaker A: Yeah, he. He's been very helpful to me. Very open, very. Because I, I, I'm like, like I talked before we started, I'm just a mortgage guy. I'm a sales guy for deep down. I'm a sales guy that's been in the mortgage business for 27 years. I've just been drinking tequila for 20 of them. And this became very easy to talk about something that you're passionate about and really enjoy. And I've met some great people through that process. [00:35:02] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Lots. Lots and lots of great people. Right. [00:35:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:06] Speaker B: So speaking of meeting people, you mentioned Racia. Right. So for those that don't know Racia, for sake of argument, let's call it Mezcal, and let's say it's Mezcal from the region that is designed, I.e. denomination of origin of making tequila. So they were sort of locked out of economic opportunity, even though they've been making Mezcal there for a very, very long time. And they have in that local area of. Of the western half of Jalisco. They had been calling it lycia since the time that the Spaniards came. And I find it hard to believe the Spaniards aren't. Are this dumb. But what, what they tell me is the Spaniards outlawed local distillation and they said you could only buy Spanish brandy, right? You could only buy Spanish wine and Spanish brandy, which I completely understand why they would do that. But when they came and asked what was in that bottle, the locals said it was a. It was a medicine they were making from the roots of the local plants. And they called it racia. And then the Spaniards apparently bought the store. Wow. So I have a hard time believing that they were. They were that dumb. But that's the story that they tell right on the. So racia is made from roots, or actually it's made from the pina of an agave plant, right. So there's a tiny denomination of origin. There's 17 municipalities in Western Jalisco, basically surrounding Puerto Vallarta. And there's a few that are on the coast, right, like by Vallarta. And then there's a mountain range, and then there's a few on the other side of the mountains, which they call that sierra and costal. So even though it's very small, there's two processes and two types of agave. So you can find those distinct characteristics in. In the racia. And Amy and I, my wife, we. We started to vacation in Mexico as it was taking over our lives. We started the vacation in Mexico. We discovered, if you don't know, that the beaches around Vallarta are. Are extraordinary. And we started to vacation around there. And then we met a Canadian guy, actually, who was a bartender in Vallarta. His name is Mike Caton. And Mike says, hey, do you want to go racia hunting? And I'm like, the hell is that? Well, it's this local spirit that they make in the mountains and down the way from here, and we could go in your car and we could go find some people that make racia. Well, hell, that sounds fun, right? So off we go with Mike, and we're the first riciero I ever met, just recently passed away. His name was Hopo. He lived to be 92 years old and he was very, very famous. And in just my dumb, happy accident life, the very first ricero I ever went to was Hoppo. And we got to sit on his porch with his son and drink racia with Hoppo and kind of like my dumb happy accident luck that I started in tequila industry with with Felipe, right. And I learned, you know, everything I know about tequila, I learned from Felipe and Guillermo and Jaime Ordine and you know, Julio Bermejo and all of these, these, these are the people that taught me everything I know about tequila. And so my, my dumb luck is I go sit with Hoppo is the first guy to tell me what is right. See you. Right. [00:38:24] Speaker A: Wow. [00:38:25] Speaker B: So this is just, this is just how, how fortunate I am. And I'm. And I, and I'm extremely grateful for it. It. So, and we, so Amy and I enjoyed this very much and we found that resieros are largely making this product on their backyard or on their patio. And they're very small. There's maybe 500 people that are making ricea in this, this area about the size of Iowa. And they're, they're just very, very nice. And they're very surprised to see a blonde haired, blue eyed gringos show up and ask if they can try that ricea. So they're very surprised and gracious when that happens. And we, we, we were exploring and at one time on the exploration, actually on the drive back to, to Guadalajara, we happened to see a sign for a taberna, which is very unusual. I've seen three signs I think for Racia Taverna. It's usually, it's literally a backyard business, right? And, and so we see this sign, we pull a U turn, we drive down the way. We can't find the place, but we found a dude on the side of the road. And the dude on the side of the road turned out to be the brother of the guy that makes the racia. So he walked us over and long story short, we're importing racia tres Gallos from those brothers that we found on the side of the road and on vacation. And it's been a remarkable thing and I'm very, very excited about it. We have two brands. One is called El Acabo which is the, the blanco version of the racia. And one is called Asil. And Asil is anejo version of the racia, which is done in new barrels. And it's. If you like a cigar, you will love Asil. It's really a remarkable, complex spirit. So that's, that's my little Racia story. And it's, it's not, it's not very big business. We've got a lot of opportunity to grow it because most people don't even know what it is, but we're excited about it. And, and I'll tell you, I just, just tonight actually they, this is June. They are releasing the Beverage Tasting Institute reports on agave spirits tonight and they'll. There will be a 97 score, a platinum medal award for the Akabo Racia and that's among the highest scores they've ever given any agave spirit ever or gets a 94, which is a hell of a good score. And so that 97 is really going to turn some heads in the world hopefully when they see that coming out of the VTI guys in Chicago. [00:41:02] Speaker A: Well, congratulations. That's really incredible. [00:41:04] Speaker B: I so lucky to them I did nothing but they grateful to get that kind of recognition for the spirit and I really hope it encourages people to try it. The tasters there are expert tasters, right. And they, they said this was an extraordinary thing. They were really, really impressed with it and they, they just really, really enjoyed it. And actually they came and, and found us at BCB and drank more. [00:41:30] Speaker A: Wow, that's awesome. [00:41:32] Speaker B: I'm, I'm excited. They really, really liked it. [00:41:35] Speaker A: And that's available on your website as well, right? [00:41:37] Speaker B: Yeah, Cabo's available on the website and it's available in many, many, many, many states now. Actually we just, like I said, we just kind of refreshed Indiana and I'm certain that Palomo and Akabo and these will, will come to Indiana very soon. I, I'm surprised they're not there already actually. [00:41:54] Speaker A: So tell me what you're most excited about right now in the agave world. What's going on in agave spirits that really gets your juices pumping? [00:42:02] Speaker B: We're the, the, the last numbers that I, that I saw were that if you, if you, I can't say additive free, but if you take the brands that were used to be on a list that said additive free and you add them all together and you look at the Nielsen data which is their sales reporting, that list is growing 14 times faster than is the category of tequila. Which means that they are, which explains the pushback. But it means they're taking margin away from the very big brands which have unfortunately been selling us, you know, artificial tequila. And that's in fact in some cases entirely artificial and in some case, in most cases is in the least heavily adulterated, manipulated from, from the type of product that you have sitting in front of you. Right. So I'm very excited at the opportunity for that and I, and I think that that category can at least double from the sales that it has now, my friend Jay Bear that we mentioned earlier, he uses the analogy to the. To the craft beer industry from the. From where I live here in Michigan and elsewhere. And. And he says that if you add all the craft beers together, they're about 15% of the market. Right. And if you add all of the authentic tequila together, it's about 9% of the market. So for. And that's a. That's a pretty awesome opportunity. And it's pretty. It's pretty fun to be a part of that and to be part of education about that. And we produce now the package magazine, which comes on our website and also an email, as well as all this video content like package tv. And we're. It's. It's really interesting to be educating consumers about authentic Mexican spirits and quality spirits and then to take them down a rabbit hole like Racia, if they're so brave as to try that. Right. It's. It's very. It's very fun. I enjoy that a lot that. [00:44:07] Speaker A: I'm impressed at how much people want to learn. And one of the things that I'm getting ready to do is we have a restaurant here in town called Tony Steakhouse, so it's one of the top steakhouses in town. And I'm actually going in and meeting with their bartenders and their weight staff, and I'm going to do a training on G4 and Don. [00:44:27] Speaker B: Cool. Cool. [00:44:29] Speaker A: The GM and the owner like what I do in tequila, and they want that taught to their people. So when somebody's at the bar and orders one of those, what I call industrial tequilas. [00:44:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:40] Speaker A: You're able to go, hey, if you like that, you might want to try this G4. And. And I love seeing that people are excited to learn that. It makes it really fun and doing tastings and things really open your eyes to how much people really don't know about the industry and don't know about what they're drinking and teaching them, that is really awesome. [00:44:59] Speaker B: It is. It's. It's a fun. It's a fun thing. Fainted Tequila does not taste like a wedding cake. In. In fact. Right. It's quite. Quite a unique flavor. [00:45:07] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:45:09] Speaker B: Much more complex than a vanilla wedding cake. And so it's really interesting to teach people that and have them. Have them start to find those flavors and textures that are. That are real and those flavors and textures that are not real. And it's very fun and interesting. We enjoy that. And also to see what, you know, we have. I'm very grateful the bar staffs that we work with all over the country are very talented people. Just like the restaurant, the chefs in the restaurant. They're amazing, right? And what they can do with flavors. And then you, you give them these complex spirits that might, might be maybe a little bit high proof or it might be a little bit weird like Altamundo or, or Racia and, and it might in the, to see them build that then into a, into a, a cocktail and really highlight that flavor or an add to it. It's, it's very fun and I enjoy the creativity of them and the energy of those people. I say I was just at BCB in New York City and I didn't make it to the, to the late events. I've got to be honest. The events that started after midnight, I didn't make it to those. But those kids are awesome. And they, they're just really fun and they do really cool stuff and it's, and I love to put that bottle in their hands and just let them, let them play with it and smell it and sniff it and taste it and go, ooh, let's. Yeah, right, that's, that's awesome. [00:46:37] Speaker A: I don't, I don't know how they do that. The only cocktail I know how to make is called Tequila Neat. [00:46:41] Speaker B: Tequila and glass. Right? Exactly. Ice in the summer. Yeah, well, they, they're, they're cool. [00:46:48] Speaker A: So is there anything in the industry today that concerns you? [00:46:51] Speaker B: Well, I think we, the people that love Tequila should be concerned by what's happened with the lawsuits coming from the Agaveros and then coming back again from Additive Free alliance and the rebuttal lawsuit from them. And they have, they have pointed out a number of examples that what's in the bottle is not what's in the bottle or not supposed to be what's in the bottle in its. I don't know if consumers know or care at enough scale to really impact the industry. I don't know. But I think it's possible that we, you know, that they, with all good intentions could shake the foundation of trust of, of what's in the bottle. And in this case, we're charging the, the organization which is responsible for guaranteeing what's in the bottle with, with fraud, essentially. Right. Or, or allowing fraud. One of the two. Right. And so either they were fraudulent or they allowed it one of the. To. And if that true, if that's true, then that, that greatly tarnishes the, the, the reputation of the, of the industry. Right. And, and that's concerning and we should be concerned. I Think the, the other thing that I will say, you know, prices have increased a lot in recent years. The, the prices that's kind of stopped of late, but they have increased a lot. And I, and I think that I have a hard time suggesting people spending more than $50 on a bottle of Blanco Tequila. I have a hard time with that. And I think that some of those prices are an impediment to a consumer. And I think that's where one of the reasons that I'm excited about G4 and Elbajito and Ateo, these are very high quality products. What I think is a value price, right? I think it's a good value. I don't, I don't think any of them are cheap, and I think all of them are a good value. But I think it's possible, you know, as if that if those prices continue to climb, that people will seek to get. To put it crudely, they'll. They'll get drunk another way. And there, there are other ways to do that and to do it less, you know, at less cost. So that's, that's something to be mindful of. And I'm very mindful to our producers and our team is very mindful that this is not an infinite package of inflation here available to us. Right. There is, there's a limit. And however much profit anybody wants, they, they need to consider that, you know, that it's not. People won't pay any price. Right. And there are choices. [00:49:23] Speaker A: Yeah. I've actually noticed some stores rolling back some of the prices on Tequila. One of the brands that you mentioned earlier was running right at that $49 for a 750 that I noticed now every place has rolled it back to like 36. And I was really, I seen that and I was like, wow, that's a big drop. [00:49:48] Speaker B: Now that is a big drop. [00:49:49] Speaker A: That means you guys all have a lot of that in the back of your store is kind of what my thought was. You're gonna roll that price back. Because I know that's not, that's not you. That's not the. [00:49:58] Speaker B: Just. [00:49:59] Speaker A: That's not the producer, in some cases not even the distributor. That's the guy that's running that store that has that tequila on that shelf to some point. And I have noticed several brands before Blanco at several of the stores that I would shop at were selling the blanco at 59. And now I'm seeing it 49, which is kind of where I always. Outside of Indiana or should have been. You see some of that rolling back and people aren't spending as much and the economy is a little different. The whole economy as a whole is a little different. So people are not spending as much money as they were. So. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Well, so it's just been a little bit tenuous. Right. And that, that makes people be careful with their, their spending and that's okay. You know, there, there's two things about pricing that just strikes me to comment on that are it's hard for the retail consumer to understand the, you know, the store can charge literally in most places anything they want and they are typically having the highest margin by far of anybody in the chain of that product flow other than the accumulation of the tax man. And what, what people don't understand, it's hard to explain that tequila gets taxed when it's produced. It gets taxed when it crosses the border, it gets taxed when it leaves, when it crosses the state line. And then it gets taxed again at the counter at the retail sale. Right. Or in the glass at the bar. And the one that profits the most out of that $49 is a collection of government entities, I assure you, much more so than us or the producer or the retailer. When people ask how does that, how does that price get to that, to that level? Right. From, from what, what it is if they understand the cost basis and that largely it's taxation, frankly. And it's taxed four and five times between its origin and its destination. And that's, and all of those are increasing at the scale as they go along. [00:51:58] Speaker A: One of my favorite quotes from a brand owner was let's drive three hours to do a tasting so we can sell seven seven dollar box bottles, right? [00:52:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:09] Speaker A: But we see a $50 bottle or bottle and a lot of people don't understand that. So. [00:52:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:52:15] Speaker A: Well, I like to ask a question to brand owners. So this question is going to be a little different because of what you've done in your business. So I ask brand owners who they would like to sit down and sip their tequila with. So I would say in your life, who would you like to sit down the most with and be able to share a glass of tequila or Racia or the mezcal and talk about what you've been able to do and build and kind of show them what you are really proud of and that that would be a really good experience for you. Who would that person be? [00:52:50] Speaker B: Sure. Well, I think. Well, I don't, I don't know if this. There, there's two answers that come to me that, that strike me and, and neither of them are very fanciful. So hopefully that's okay. [00:53:04] Speaker A: That's fine. [00:53:05] Speaker B: The, the, my, my favorite people to drink the product with are the, are the ones who make it. And I, and I love it. At the end of the day, if the brand owner, if I, and I'm there a lot, I'm in Mexico every month. If the brand owner, they don't do this all the time, but the brand owner will let me invite the guys when they're done. And no offense to some of the girls, but let's most, let's say mostly guys invite, invite the guys when they're done to sit down for a minute and have the, have a glass before they go home. And, and I, I appreciate their work. They, they work really hard. [00:53:39] Speaker A: They do. [00:53:40] Speaker B: It's hard work. And, and I, I'm not allowed to use tools so I'm extra respectful of people who do because I just doesn't work for me. And those guys, they, they, they, they do hard, hard labor. Right? And, and, and they're, and they're generally not, they don't get to taste through the day there or whatever. That's not allowed. So to have them sit down for a minute and have a topo chico or whatever they've made, I enjoy that very, very much. And, and I, and I think the other, my other answer. I have 2 son in laws and again not, not fanciful at all, but I have two son in laws. They both work for me. One works in accounting and one works in sales. And I appreciate the opportunity to sit with them and talk with them about where the products came from and who makes it and how the market works and how our business works and how we've grown, you know, how we got to be here and how the business grows or, and what's hard and what's easy and how things go. And that's been very. Both of those things I want to say are a surprise to me and something I'm very grateful of, you know, to meet the guys that make the things. I'm proud and grateful to know their names and to compliment them for their work and to not take them for granted. And then on the other hand to have the opportunity to sit with son in laws. And frankly, when I first got son in laws I wasn't so thrilled about it. It as boyfriends, I didn't much care for them at all. But to now say, well, I like you guys and you like me and you're interested in the business and let's Sit and appreciate this thing and talk about it and try it and talk about the business and where it comes from. That's pretty cool. I really enjoy that. And that's better than. For me, that's better than any maybe famous person or something like that that might drive drink with very few people. [00:55:30] Speaker A: Say a famous person. It's mostly family and that's what I, I share tequila with a lot of friends and a lot of family. Yeah, it's really awesome to be able to sit down and, and talk about a great brand. [00:55:41] Speaker B: So it's fun. [00:55:43] Speaker A: Well, I'm going to put up here all over this screen, all the places to find your Facebook, your Instagram, your Tick Tock. Your website, especially your website has some great information. And man, I just want to say thanks. Thanks for taking the time to do this and I really appreciate you. [00:55:58] Speaker B: You. I appreciate it, Brad. I thank you. And sincerely, the, the package magazine content which is subscribed to right from the package website. I think it's extraordinary. I mean we're, we have a great team and they're doing cool work and it's not just about our brands. It's about Agave spirits and Mezcal and the places and the people and the stories and I know I don't know anybody that's doing anything better than what we're doing. Humbly. I sincerely. It's really amazing, amazing content. [00:56:27] Speaker A: You know, what you've done as a company is pretty awesome because brands are referred to as a package group brand. [00:56:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:35] Speaker A: You're the only importer that I can say. I know that's who imports that product. [00:56:41] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's. [00:56:43] Speaker A: So you've done a lot. [00:56:44] Speaker B: I'm, I'm, I'm grateful to hear that. And I'm, I'm, I'm hearing more and more from people that say if I, if I see it's packaged on the back label, I know it's good. And, and, and that's, that's pretty cool. So we, I'm, I'm tremendously grateful for that. I have nothing to say but, but, but thank you to anyone who, who would, would think such a thing. That's, it's really, it's really an honor. [00:57:07] Speaker A: Well, let's, let's go out with a sip. You still have a glass there. That's right. I got the, the elvajito extranejo here. [00:57:15] Speaker B: This I have my little, my little, my little glass. My little funny glass. [00:57:18] Speaker A: I like it. Cheers, my friend. [00:57:20] Speaker B: Salud. Gracias. Way.