Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: La Grimas Del Valley isn't just another tequila. It's a single Rancho vintage tequila that proves terroir exists in agave. Each release comes from one field, one harvest, one unique story crafted by the Rosales family at Cascaline. It's tequila with true character, authenticity and complexity. And today we're going to sit down with the man bringing this story to life, Brandon Cummins. And I'm telling you what, this isn't just the story of La Grimas. This is a master class art on taste. This guy has so many great explanations of how to find flavor in everything that you drink. And it's going to be a really fun video. So stick around and check it out.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: It's tasting tequila with bread.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: All right, this is going to be exciting one for me. This is a tequila that I'm really excited about. It brings so many different things to tequila than just a, a shiny fancy bottle with good juice in it. And today I'm going to have a discussion with Brandon and he's going to tell us all about it. Brandon, how are you doing tonight?
[00:01:05] Speaker B: I'm doing great, Brad, how are you doing, man?
[00:01:06] Speaker A: I'm just stoked to be here. Whenever I get to hang out with somebody and talk about tequila, like how can life get any worse than this? Right?
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Yep. Totally agree.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: All right, tell a little bit about who you are and some of your history.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: Sure. Well, I grew up in the restaurant industry so I mean from the age of like 5 on, used to work at my dad's restaurant. My aunt was kind of the, the head che cook. We had an in house baker, we had an in house butcher. So I was just always like surrounded by olfactory and food and obviously spent way too much time hanging out at the bar and hanging out with bartenders and learning a lot of their jokes, which of course I retold terribly most of my life.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: And then like, you know, got into college and was doing the whole like, ah, I've got an engineering scholarship, I'm going to go get my engineering degree. And ultimately changed gears like six times, got a degree in journalism. But throughout all that I was like, you know what, I, I really need some cash, I'm going to go, go back to bartending.
So. Worked at an award winning wine bar and helped run their wine program for a while and honestly dove far deeper into beverage culture than I ever anticipated. Moved up to Kansas City, helped open a craft cocktail bar and then eventually got introduced to David Sudo from the Tequila Interchange project. Probably most well known from Siembra spirits now, you know. So met David impassioned about the world of agave distillates as a whole. And, you know, as they say, the rest is kind of history. So I found my way to work with Altimar Brands. We were the original importer for Tequila Ocho, and that's honestly what brought me to the company, was kind of learning this intersection of terroir and wine knowledge and olfactory geekiness coupled with the cocktail world and agave spirits. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, here's a tequila that embodies all of these characteristics that I just obsessed about through college.
And that's what kind of brought me over to Altimar. And jokingly, I've earned two titles since I've started here. So my actual title is Director of Education, but one of the titles is Chief Sniffer and Taster, which means before we bring anything into the United States, we put it through rigorous blind nosing and tasting panels, of which yours truly somehow is responsible for leading. And then lastly, the other title is Troll under the Bridge because of how many different brands have been rejected because of diffusers or additives or accelerants or, you know, like, the flavor profile just didn't. Wasn't up to snuff. So needless to say, the rest is history. That was now a little over a decade ago, and I'm still here. So that's my background in a nutshell. So just a massive beverage geek is really what it comes down to.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: So I have two questions. One, are you the kind of guy that you dig in there and you're like, okay, that.
That smells like rain on wet concrete, but. But on A Tuesday, on the 4th of May, when it was 84 degrees out, are you, like, one of those guys?
[00:04:02] Speaker B: I mean, realistically, it depends whether or not I'm taking my ADHD meds, because I legitimately. Legitimately, if I'm off my meds, my. My synaptic response is so much faster. And there is just like, oh, no, this is like that one time I was at the lake, and it was like a Thursday, and it was like, you know, or this was like, July 4th, like, five years ago. And, like, there are these things blooming. I don't know what they were, but they were these weird white flowers, and it just. It snowballs really quick.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: But, yeah, that's one of my favorites. There's a. There's a podcast called the Whiskey Tequila Fridays Podcast.
And Matt and Drew on there, they're really good friends. And Matt has this Ability to be like, okay, that was band camp on the ninth grade. You know, it was sweaty and swampy out. He always has, like, the best descriptions. And I'm like, this one smells like cooked agave. I get cooked agave.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I had a buddy. I had a buddy in college that we were working at the wine bar together, and there was some wine. I don't remember what it was, but we were nosing some wine. He was like. Everyone's like, oh, I'm definitely getting, like, fresh apples and, you know, like, some cinnamon. He goes, no, no, no. It's not apples or cinnamon. It's Musselman's applesauce. It's specifically. It's not mots. It's Musselman's applesauce. And, like, there were three other people in the group that were like, holy shit, dude. Like, you are dead on. It is exactly Muscleman's.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: But it's, you know, over time, I guess. Like, it's. It's just trusting whatever your gut is, right? No two palates are the same. So.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I pick up some things like that, or, you know, I'll pick up, like, a certain, you know, flavor, and I can kind of relate it to something right away. But other times, I. I struggle. So it's. It's been a growing thing for the palate side for me. So the other question is, as a. A guy making great craft cocktails, how much does it bug you when you're there making these amazing drinks and a guy like me sits down and goes, oh, you guys have magrimas?
Can I have that neat? No fruit, Just in a glass.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: Oh, no, that's the best. Like, you were. You are now my favorite human, right? Because as much as, like, we love our fancy bespoke drinks, right? Like, we always. We always said, like, you know, we. We take our drinks seriously, but we don't take ourselves seriously.
You're also the guy that just, like, saved our ass, and now that's, like, five steps extra we don't have to take, right? So it's like, screw that. I don't have to make this fancy drink. You just want. You want this neat. Perfect. You're now my best friend.
[00:06:23] Speaker A: That's pretty awesome. I never looked at it that way. Like, I have some friends that are really good mixologists, and we go to this.
It's like a speakeasy club. And these guys are, like, rated mixologists. Like, they've won contests to be in America, and whenever I see them, I'm like, oh, you have that Now I'll just have that neat. And they always look at me like, okay, I can make you an amazing cocktail.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, like, if it's a new spot I've never been into, like, as a nerdy bartender to another nerdy bartender, right? If I've never been in there, I'll order one cocktail off their list. But from there, it's. It's whatever I want, right? It's like, I'll. I'll do it just because, like, oh, that's really interesting. I want to try this crazy bespoke concoction you came up with. But now I don't. I don't know. I've always been one of those, like, same thing. Whenever I'm pouring tequila or whiskey or rum or anything for anyone, it's like, I'll pour it for you neat.
You can adulterate it or add whatever you want to it. And I will judge you not like, that is not my job. Like, you know how you like it. That is how your palate is constructed. So, you know, if you've always drank, always consumed your tequila, like, out of the freezer, like, ice cold. Personally, I don't care for that because that, for me, like, that deadens my olfactory. That deadens all of the, like, all the essences and things that I love. But if that's how you like it, by all means, man, like, please enjoy it. Enjoy it how you do. So it's.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: It's the drink, what you like, process. And every once in a while, my brain says, wow, I can't believe you like that.
[00:07:48] Speaker B: But, yep, it's like, that's cool.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: Someone and something for everyone's what they say, right?
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: What's the go to cocktail? When you are in a bar and you're in that mood for a cocktail, what. What's your go to cocktail?
[00:08:01] Speaker B: I mean, it. It's very much my mood and very much the bar and very much the space. You know, it's in a lot of cases, if I'm walking into. I mean, if it's a nicer establishment, I'm, like, a little bit fancier. If I'm dressed up for the night, I'm definitely ordering a martini of some form, usually a 50. 50. I'm gonna keep it pretty classic, but, you know, big fan of, like, just a classic daiquiri, a classic margarita, a classic Paloma. Like, I. I'm. I'm. I'm a sucker for the classics. Like, they are what they are. You know, again, if they've got, like, a super bespoke. Menu. Right. And you can tell they've put a lot of energy and effort into this. I might just default to dealer's choice, you know, and just say, like, hey, man, like, it's my first time here. Like, one of my favorite questions is, what's your favorite cocktail? And then what is the cocktail on the menu that you wish more people would order, but they don't?
[00:08:52] Speaker A: That's a good one. I always go with what's. What's. What's your favorite one? What. What would you make you. If you were making a drink?
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: And. And I'm surprised there's so many of them that turn around and go, I would just have this neat.
[00:09:03] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean, my move is always a shot in a beer. So it's like, if you said that to me, it's like, yeah, yeah, hold on. Yeah, here's a shot, and then here's like a. A, you know, a yard beer. Have fun.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: That's awesome.
All right, so let's. Let's dive into one of these titles as the director of education.
What does that mean?
[00:09:20] Speaker B: We work as an importer.
Also. I work as the master blender for our whiskey brand. So for all of our American whiskeys, I'm actually, I act as the master blender for that. You know, at the end of the day, like I said, it comes down to I am just a massive geek about beverage and, you know, so director of education, I. You know, it's. We'll do blind tastings. We'll do palette exercises. So, you know, like, I. I got. I was invited to teach a class seminar this year at Tales of the Cocktail in New Orleans. And that seminar was called Additives 101. And it wasn't necessarily pro additives or con additives. It was very much about, let's train our palates to detect whether or not additives are used and explain some of the whys that you would use an additive. Like, if you have a mistake during fermentation, you know, that certain additives will help to mask, you know, malolactic fermentation and things along those. Along those lines. So we'll do that. We'll do deep dives into the category of agave, trying to give some historical reference.
I have a certificate of distillation from the International or the Institute of Brewing and Distilling in the uk so, you know, occasionally also looking at overseeing fermentation and distillation and tweaking the product profiles and parameters for some of our distillates.
Although many of our producers that we work with are generationally deep, so I dare not touch anything that they do.
But at the end of the day, like that, that background helps me to explain hopefully what they're doing and how that impacts flavor and how that can transform a guest experience. Right? Because at the end of the day, my job is to help bartenders and servers better understand, you know, how to better take care of their guests or to give them a unique experience.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: So, yeah, that's awesome. So, okay, so here, dive into the additive things because I, I get a lot of tequila sent to me, right? And sure, I, I never want to have a tequila on and review it in a bad way. Like, I'm not here to bash anybody's brand. And, you know, some people may have developed the palette of that tequila and that's what they like. But I get a lot that they send them and they go, oh, this is additive free. Many times it's, it's clearly not right, but sometimes I feel like I picked something up, but I don't really know. So what is the, what's the hardest additive in tequila to detect?
[00:11:39] Speaker B: Well, I mean, that's, that's tough, right? Because there, the whole goal with additives is that such a little amount can transform something so dramatically.
And ultimately, you know, if we, if we kind of go to that, that goal of why would you use additives? Like, what is the benefit, right? Like, why would someone choose to do that?
The goal is really consistency more than anything else, right? So, oh, man, again, you had malolactic or lactic fermentation happening and you tried not, you tried to stop that. Like, you add a tiny bit of glycerin and that glycerin will basically subdue a lot of those esters and compounds so that you don't detect them on the nose. Of course, glycerin also affects the mouth feel. It affects the texture, it affects the, you know, the overall, like, perception of sweetness on the palate. So glycerin can also be used as an additive to sweeten the spirit. Now, you know, there's all the tests for, like, you can rub it on your fingers and sometimes it leaves that little bit of stickiness, which sometimes works, sometimes does not. You can also swirl the glass and see how quickly the legs fall, right? If you have an additive free product versus an additive laden product, the legs of the spirit fall at a very different rate between the two. And so you can kind of look and compare.
I'd say, like glycerin is probably, is for sure one of the most prevalent Additives across all categories of spirit. I mean, we're talking vodkas, we're talking rums, we're talking tequila, obviously.
And it's just, it's, it's rarely used because it alters, it improves. Right. So many aspects of the olfactory, it hides mistakes, it smooths out the product and it sweetens it, you know, and I always tell people, like at the end of the day, we as humans naturally gravitate towards sugar because we crave sugar, right? So it's like, give me a little bit more sugar in here. Of course I'm gonna like this product more. It's sweeter, it's easier to drink it. It also masks the perception of ethanol, right. So it's going to make it go down smoother. So like, smooth is, is one of my least favorite words in the lexicon of like tasting vocabulary because it's just what, what are we actually describing? So I'd say probably, you know, as far as the most prevalent glycerin, the most difficult to detect, probably also glycerin in the sense of even just a tiny bit can alter things so substantially.
Um, you know, so one of, and I know I'm waxing poetic and I'm hoping you're editing this, but yeah, you're doing great.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: This is great information.
[00:14:15] Speaker B: So one of, one of the, you know, when I'm conducting a lot of these blind taste scenarios, I will actually, the last several times I've done it, I've done it with La Grimas and it's, let's take the exact same tequila. The same tequila is in both glasses. I'm gonna give you an eyedropper. I want you to put one drop, one drop of glycerin in one of the two glasses. And I just want you to observe, right? And effectively, if you're looking at about a 1 ounce pour in that tasting glass and you're looking at one drop that is effectively below your standard. Like, I can't remember if it's.01%, but it's below the threshold of what you would normally encounter.
And even then it is such a marked difference. It just shows how little of some of these additives it takes to then completely alter the profile and ultimately, you know, alter what the final product is. So, and again, I'm never going to like fault somebody for liking additive laden things and I'm never going to fault a producer for choosing to use them because that's also a choice that they make and that is an important thing for them. If, if consistency is the Most important thing. And you want to have a dead consistent product every time. Additives are a sure way to get it every single time.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: Sure, that. That's a great explanation. I don't have the glycerin to drop in, but what I do is I'll. I'll take a tequila that I know, and I'll pour them side by side, and then I would taste them side by side to kind of give one that I know. And this is a kind of a baseline for me. And I had one the other day that I was like, man, that just seems sweet to me. Like, it had this sweetness to me that was more than what I was expecting. And I. So my. Instantly, my brain's like, ah, there's some kind of sweetener in there. And then I turned around, and I. I grabbed the tequila that I hadn't had in a while.
Don Filano, the. The Forte. I popped it open, I poured it in a glass, and I. I had it just a little bit after the other. I'm like, okay, that was sweeter than what that other one was. So then. Then I went back, and I'm like, okay, well, that one was an 83 proof that I had sent to me. So it was a little bit higher proof. And then. Then I walked away going, okay, maybe it doesn't have anything in there, because this. This baseline that I have here that I know was a little bit sweeter than what I was. So something to me, I. I get in the weeds. And then I. I also. I'm way too focused on it sometimes, you know, thinking that that one's gonna have additives in it, and it doesn't.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Or whatever the base. I mean, but you're bringing up, like, a super important point, right? Baseline. Hugely important, right? So, for example, when I'm doing my blending, right, if I'm blending whiskey, I need to have some kind of a litmus. I have to have something that is consistent every single time. And so I have. I have basically, you know, my controls are Bud Light because. And this was actually taught to me by another master distiller many, many years ago. He was like, no matter what, wherever you go in the world, Bud Light is going to taste identical, right? Is engineered to taste identical. And so, you know, it is going to negate differences in water quality and minerality. So if you need something as a control, it actually works as a great control. So, ironically, I use Bud Light to clear my palette. I also use Stolik Naya vodka. I've used Stoli for years, and So I have trained my palate just as that is like, a baseline. If I'm tasting spirit, I need to acclimate my palate to spirit. Right. I need to move out of wine or out of beer into spirit. And here is a baseline of neutrality. And I'm not saying that Stoli is a perfectly neutral vodka, but it's my baseline. Right. So, like, that is what I use. And then from there I'm like, okay, now I can actually formulate some judgment on what I'm getting here, because I've got that point of reference. So, same thing with, like, glassware. Glassware is the same thing. Baseline, Right. So if you're going to write tasting notes and review things, like, just use the same glasses every single time, because guess what? You change glass style and glass shape, and you're going to express very different aromatics, very different palette mouthfeel.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: So that's so true. Like, I poured in these glasses today for this experiment, but normally I. I drink out of one of these.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: Yeah, like the giant brandy snifter.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because I. For me, I don't always have the best sinuses, and so sometimes I'll grab this and go, well, I smell absolutely nothing. Like, I could have water in there, and I don't know. But when I pour a six ouncer in here, I. I can smell it. I can get all of the aromas that I'm looking for.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: And so I. That. That's like.
Yeah.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: So.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: But I use these when I'm gonna go side by side, because I can, you know, really get that baseline. I do my blinds that way. I do the tequila matchmaker blinds that way too. So.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: Well, I didn't expect this to go this way. This is great information.
So as. As an educator in spirits, let's go tequila specifically, what do you think the biggest misconception America still has about tequila?
[00:19:01] Speaker B: What is the biggest misconception that America still has about tequila?
That I had a bad experience and I can't drink tequila, man. I mean, honestly, like, that's still one of the biggest things. Like, I hear it all the time. It's like, oh, I just. I can't drink tequila. I had a bad experience. It's like, when were you drinking tequila? What kind of tequila were you drinking? Right. And more often than not, it's. And not to, like, say anything bad about mistos, but more often than not, it's not 100% puro de agave. Right. And then it's also like, I was drinking crappy tequila in College. It's like, okay, let's not throw the whole category under the bus here. Let's just. It's the same thing as somebody being like, I don't drink gin, I just don't like gin. It's like, no.
The range of flavors in the category of gin is so dramatic. Just like the range of flavors in agave spirits is so dramatic that it's like, oh, man. Just open your mind. Like, if you're a whiskey drinker, guess what you probably will really like. Anejo. An extra anejo tequila. And eventually, maybe one day you'll see the light and you'll come over to the plata and blanco side. But.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: It'S so funny that you'd say that because I relate that to people who drink wine. Right? Like, I'm not a wine drinker. I try. Like, I, I kind of like some wines now, but it's like, okay, so what do you like in wine? An ice wine, Moscato. And then they're like delicious. Like, perfect. Because when I'm done with you, you're going to drink the driest cabernet ever in the world. And I'm like, I relate because I'm going to bring you in with like the most additive on, yeah. Tequila. And before we're done, you're walking out with a high proof blanco and you're going to love it. Wow. Yeah.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: I mean, it's like, welcome, welcome to Pandora's box. I mean, right?
You know, so I think, I think that's it. And I also, like, I think the other major misconception is, you know, only gravitating towards big name brands. You know, it's like, just understand that, like, that the world is so diverse and so rich, you know, I mean, like, you know, we as Americans, we consume, what is it, like 90% of all agave distillates. I'm totally skewing this number. I don't remember what it is, but it's an absurd amount, Right? Like, we are, we are the number one consumption region for all agave spirits, even more so than Mexico, which is just wild to consider. And so it's like, then understanding that there's still generationally made products that have never crossed the border. And like, so, you know, we've, we've only dipped our toe in like down the rabbit hole here. So there's just so much more to experience. And I think that's one of the coolest aspects about it too.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I, over the last drinking tequila for 20 years, like, tequila's been My thing, I'm way older than you. I've probably drank bad tequila way before you were born. You're just.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: You're just well matured, man.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: You're just. Well, yeah, I'm aging more like milk than wine.
[00:21:48] Speaker B: Whiskey. Yeah.
[00:21:49] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I've. So I've been really heavy in tequila, you know, probably the last eight years. And one of the things I really haven't dipped my toe into until really the last 12 months is having some mezcal or having a raisia or some baconora. And all of a sudden you're like, oh, that, that Toba law, that tapazate, and all of a sudden these.
You get.
You outgrow the smoke and you get into the flavor and the richness and the floral and the minerals and the herbals, and you're just like, how amazing that rabbit hole is.
And really, it comes right back to the brand, La Grimas, because you're. You're really showing the different things that those different plants give you. You know, a different plant type and a different terroir. You guys are showing that in a brand, and I love that that's what you're doing and that you can pick those different flavors out of each bottle. It's pretty awesome.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: I mean, so I always tell people, you know, if we. If you really want to study terroir, if you want to understand the impact that the land has, you have to control nearly every other variable in the process, right? So it's like, you got to think about it like a really well executed scientific experiment. And here with lagerimas, that was the challenge, right? And so when we started this conversation with Chava and his family at costcoine, it was very much the like, look, I'm probably going to be a big pain in the butt when it comes to, like, narrowing down the production process here, you know? And at one point, there was something like 14 to 18 different samples in front of us, representing every possible permutation of their production methodology that they could do at Cascawine, right? And it was. Okay, now, which of these are going to best highlight and showcase terroir? And of course, then we started blending them, right? Because it's like, as if that was not enough, then it's like, oh, what if we took this and we took this and we just got really, like, excited about it, and the next thing you know, we're up. We're with this, like, 70, 30 split. But the reality is that, you know, again, controlling every variable, so it's always distilled at Cascawine, right. So no matter what. Lagermas del Valle, right. Tears of the valley, it's always got like a thumbprint of the valley on it. Even though it might not be valley agave, it still has the terroir of the valley because of the ambient yeast, because of the water, the deep well water that's being used, that's coming from El Adinal. Like, all of that is going to add the terroir of the valley to it. So, you know, everything from the cook to the crush to the fermentation process, to the use of fibers, yes or no, to the combination of stills used to the blend between it, the resting periods, the entry proof into barrel, all of these things had to be dead consistent and locked so that the only variable we're experiencing is the land, right? And so, you know, we began this whole story in the valley, in Amatitan, right? And the first two fields, Palo Verde and El Chicano, which both came out, both were harvested in 2022.
They came out in pretty close proximity to one another. And they were harvested basically almost next to each one another. Same valley, same terroir, same region. But how substantially different will they taste night and day, right? And so it's like that the first two fields had to be the proof of concept. It's the, like, if we put these two side by side, how different will they be, even knowing they are so close in proximity to one another?
[00:25:27] Speaker A: So, so how did you guys come up with the concept? Like, what was the day that you woke up and said, okay, I got an idea, let's do this? Like, how did that all come about?
[00:25:35] Speaker B: Well, the story goes, so, I mean, because we were the original importer for Tequila Ocho, right? We had already spent a number of years telling the story of terroir and talking about the Camarena family and talking about their history. And they're bringing the blue agave to the highlands. And we are understanding microclimates, right? And so we're understanding all of these subtle differences within terroir that are making substantial impacts in flavor, you know. And then the phone call comes in and Samson and Suri expressed interest, you know, and eventually Heaven Hill expresses interest. And. And I always. I always relate it to. It's like it's your. Your ex girlfriend that, like, moved away and you had to break. You had to split up. But, like, ultimately she's super happy now, and you can tell she's very well off. And her family's good, too. Everybody's well taken care of, and you're Like, I can't actually be upset about it, you know, but, like, there was part of that where it's like, a little bit of ego death was in that. And it's the, like, man, I miss the ability to tell the story. I miss the ability to, like, share the passion of terroir here.
And so after Ocho was acquired, lb who. William Lee Lyons Brown the third, our founder and CEO, he called me, and he was just like, hey, you know, you're. You're an agave nerd.
Not. Not his exact words, but he is just like, hey, if you could work with anybody in all of tequila, who would it be? You know? And it's like, Casca win. Like, zero hesitation. Like, everything Chava and his family had been doing up until that point was just like, it had been very respectful of tradition, of distillate, was always incredible, you know? And so then it was a matter of, like, reaching out and saying, hey, would you guys ever be interested in doing something? And of course, they said, we'd love to, but we're so busy. We're just not taking on any contract brands right now. But next time you're here, you know, I know you're in Mexico from time to time. Next time you're here, like, reach out. Let's go grab dinner. And, you know, I always joke that I'm never one to say no to a free dinner. So I was on a plane, like, three days later to Guadalajara, meeting up with Chava, and we're having dinner together, and the conversation came up. He's like, well, what would the concept be like if we were to do something? What. What were you thinking about? And it was, well, terroir, right? We started just, like, just scraping the edge of this with Ocho, and we understood the depth immediately. And it's like, you look at tequila, and now we've got.
Yeah, that's one sub region of one state. And yes, like, 95% of all tequila comes from Jalisco. So then it's like the other 5%. That's what I want to focus on. Like, I don't know what terroir actually tastes like from Michoacan. Right? I've had tequilas from Michoacan. But to understand the expression of terroir in that way or. And, like, far be it for me to understand the differences between Nayarit and Guanajuato and Tamaulipas, it's like, that was the thing, and it's like, what if we did it in a way where we could Always control everything, but allow the terroir to showcase.
Do you think that could work?
And he was like, maybe, like, I love this idea, though. He's like, we're not doing contract, but let me go back to my family and if they agree to it, like, we'll take this on as a family brand, right? And so we actually have shared ownership with the Rosales family of Cascoine in La Grimas because it's not just a contract brand, right? Like Chavez father, like Salvador makes the selection of the field, right? Is so much so that I'm. I always joke, like, I'm never going to be the one to suggest, like, hey, we should pick this field, right? Like, I can say, like, of course I would love to see a field that is not in the state of Jalisco.
And if that happens to present itself, cool. But at the end of the day, like, if he came to me and he's like, nah, this field in Jalisco right now, it's. It's ready. Like, I'm not. I have zero argument, you know? And in fact, the reason we're at 46 was entirely their decision. That was not our decision either. So because I did blind tasting panels here in the United States. They held blind tasting panels in Mexico. Our. Our panels came back 47%. Their panels came back 46%. And I said, you know what? I'm actually going to defer to you guys on this because you've been doing this far longer than I have, so that's awesome.
[00:29:43] Speaker A: And what a. What a group of people to work with. Like, that's. It's one of those things where if I see a tequila and I go, oh, it's. It's 11:23. Yeah, I'll go ahead. And there's. I have a handful of those, right? There's a handful of those distilleries that you're just like, nah, it can't be bad. Like, they, they could have run that through their toilet water. And it's probably going to be good tequila.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: I mean, when I was like a wine geek and doing all the wine buying, you know, it's like there was a period that I, I like, became obsessed with importers, right? So I would look on the back labels. Just like, now we look at no members. Same idea, right? It's like, oh, oh, this is imported by Vintus. I know this is going to be solid. Like, I've not had this one. I probably should try this wine, you know? So, like, there were. There was like a handful of these here.
[00:30:24] Speaker A: And there, I think that's happening in Tequila as well. When you look at some of the importers and you go, okay, Ultimore Brands, I mean, that's going to be a solid product, you know, package group, that's probably going to be a solid product. There's a couple of those where importers now are starting to shine within the industry and the brands that they're dealing with. So I think that's a thing for us. I think that's going to continue to grow into the future as well.
[00:30:49] Speaker B: I mean, I wholeheartedly agree and that Altimar Brands is a phenomenal importer and every product that they bring into their portfolio is exceptional quality.
Well, so say. So say it's the chief sniffer and taster. But no, I mean, like one that's not exactly so, you know, end of the day, like, I mean, honestly, that that's a big part of it, you know. You know, and I got to give some credit to, you know, the guys who did this before all of us, like Robert Denton, right. Like importing like Chinaco and some of the very first brands into the United States and Henry Price. Like, these guys have paved the way for a lot of us that have now like been like, holy crap. Like there is, you know, fortunately we, we have some good, good references to look back on from history so well.
[00:31:31] Speaker A: And it's good to know that as a, as an importer, you're looking for not only in this case, to partner and create a great brand, but also looking for great brands to highlight and finding that authentic, traditional, clean product to bring to the market. And that gives us another place to go besides Tequila Matchmaker. Okay. This must be a solid product or they would never have it. That's right. That's like my mindset there.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: Right.
Okay.
[00:32:01] Speaker A: So. So for the newbies that watch these videos that have, they've heard us say the word terroir.
It took me a year to say terroir correctly. Can you explain what in the world terroir is? For those who don't know, the beautiful.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Thing is that everybody gets terroir. They just don't necessarily know that that's the word that captures it. Right.
So I've been doing these single origin chocolate tastings recently, which by the way, is a terribly, like, pretentious and special thing to say. There's a third generation chocolatier here in Kansas City love them to death. And they're Swiss too. So, like the chocolate is extremely high quality. But they have a single origin chocolate from Ecuador, a Single origin chocolate from Venezuela, a single origin chocolate from Madagascar. Right. All of which taste completely differently because of where the cocoa beans were grown. And it's this idea that the same thing, if grown in different soil, different climate, different surrounds, will taste completely different. You know, the literal translation is French and is a sense of place. Right. And it's this idea though that it's like this thing from this particular place in the world tastes different than anywhere else in the world. And so it's that expression of how much can you celebrate that, how much can you showcase that? So that, that is the concept, that is the thing that you taste instead of just, you know, like, it's like I always tell people, Lagermas is always going to be exceptional quality tequila. It is always going to be delicious, exceptionally well made because it's always distilled, a cascade.
But no two bottles or no two ranches are ever going to taste alike, right? They are going to be different.
[00:33:46] Speaker A: So I got this question recently from one of my bourbon friends. They're like, well, isn't there terroir in bourbon?
And in my brain I'm like, okay, an agave plant grows for eight years and corn and rye and barley th those grow yearly.
My answer was, I don't know, I don't think so. But is there an identifiable terroir in a whiskey or a bourbon?
[00:34:15] Speaker B: Well, I mean, it depends how.
It's always about the level of focus you want to give it. Right. So if we want to go like really laser, like razor thin focus, there's terroir in the cellar. Right. And a master blender for a whiskey brand is selecting different floors and different barrels to construct the overall flavor profile based upon the different terroir of where it was located in the cellar. Right. The cellaring conditions are a consideration, including what is the climate, what is the humidity, what is the, you know, is it a poured concrete foundation or is it an exposed earth foundation? Right. Because that is going to affect the way that humidity transfers into your barrels as well. So all of those aspects can be considered terroir. But if we go strictly to the agricultural material, right. So like starting with the corn or let's say rye, to me you notice so much more variability in terroir in rye than you do in corn, which speaks more to just the varieties of rye and the expression of rye as a grain.
But you absolutely can taste a difference from, you know, like your rise grown in the Minnesota, like the northern parts of the US Right. Like if we're talking Indiana. Right. Like Indiana Rye and Indiana corn is going to taste different from Nebraska, from Kentucky, from, like there will be subtle changes in difference of the flavor of the corn, even if it is the same species. Right. So it comes down to the farming practices. It comes down to. Yeah. Ultimately the irrigation practices. And then you look at the terroir of the distiller, the terroir of the seller. Like, there is aspects of this throughout every product that exists. It's just how much focus do you want to take to it? Does that kind of make sense?
[00:36:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that could go back to the terroir of the barrel. If I'm using an oak from Missouri or an oak from. Or a French oak or some other oak, I'm gonna get that terroir. But with the. I look at the terroir of tequila coming from mostly the agave and the water, right. And that's what we're highlighting in the flavor by pointing out the fields. I don't think you'd be able to take a bourbon and say, hey, that was the corner 300 north and 700 west where that corn was grown.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: Right.
[00:36:36] Speaker A: And know the difference of it in a five year old bourbon.
[00:36:40] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. I would say it is. It is far less noticeable. Right. Because you know, actually I will quote Carlos Camarena on this because one of my favorite quotes from him, we were working with Ocho and I still use it to this day because it just captures it so beautifully. He's like, if you want to taste great oak, you drink a whiskey, you drink a rum, you drink a cognac. If you want to taste great agave, you want to drink a plata, you want to drink unaged. Because the magic that happens for a whiskey happens in the barrel. The magic that happens for the agave happens in the ground.
Right. Because again, like you were saying, that's like five to 10, five to eight years where it's just sitting there soaking up that much more of the characteristics, allowing that much more time for, you know, let's say there's mango trees, right. For the mangoes to fall and deplete and become fertilizer and. And then, you know, integrate aspects of themselves into the plant. Not to say that you're going to detect the flavor of mango, but it's all going to. It's absolutely going to affect the flavor of the agave that live next to those mango trees.
[00:37:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So much more terroir in potentially the plant of tequila versus the grain of a bourbon.
Now maybe you could taste it in the white dog of the Bourbon, but that it's.
I, I have some. I always show that to people in tastings. Here you. We drink blanco, right? Well, let's get you a blanco whiskey. Let's taste this. Straight out of the seal whiskey. And it does taste like corn.
[00:38:07] Speaker B: Yep. That it do. That it do. I mean, and again, there's some, there's some beautiful like unaged grain distillates out there. And I'll just use grain to just cover everything.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:38:19] Speaker B: We'll just paint with the broadest brush possible. But I agree, I think the expression of terroir in spirit form is deepest or has the most potential for depth for sure in the agave, likely also in sugarcane as far as fresh cane. But you know, we're only scraping the surface on both of these. And you know, again, like this is a centuries, millennia old concept. Like we've been sourcing particular things from particular places around the world because they taste a particular way, but for as long as humans have given a shit about how things taste. So, you know, arguably it's, it's been a while. You know, it's like even like the, the, the Belgian monks, right. Like if you look at like some of the old brewing recipes, like it's like, oh, we need to harvest these grains from this particular region for this particular beer or chartreuse or whatever the product was, you know. So this idea of terroir is not new at all. It's a very old idea.
[00:39:20] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been around a long time and, and the flavor differences in it are very recognizable. I have friends in the wine world that can sip a blind wine and tell you, you know, where that wine came from. Here's a question that I know.
Fermentation really affects the, the taste of tequila. I think there's a lot of magic in fermentation, but one of the things that is time of year that you're actually going to fermentation. So does La Grimas kind of make it to where they're always fermenting in the same season?
That way the yeasts that are in the air are going to be similar each year and that the temperatures for your fermentation are going to be similar so you don't have maybe a longer fermentation because it was a lot colder out than normal? Or do you like focus on that part of your production part?
[00:40:12] Speaker B: Not as much. Because when we look at the.
So I mean when we break down the actual production process, right, we're 70% roller mill crushed agave fermented in open air steel without Picasso. Right. So entirely ambient fermentation, natural fermentation, whatever terms you want to use.
But have you, like, if you've been to Costcoin, you know that their stainless steel fermentation tanks are indoors. It is within like essentially a. It's not climate controlled by any means, but it is certainly a cooler area. And they do have, you know, the, the actual cooling rings on the stainless steel tanks. So they are going to maintain a lot of consistency in that. Now, if we were going entirely open air in wood, right, which is now if we're going outdoors for their wood fermentation or even in their fiberglass, which is a bit more sensitive to those swings, we would see more of a change there. So it's less. We haven't necessarily controlled the season in which we're fermenting as much because those aspects were already fairly consistent, knowing that the majority of what we are getting is coming from roller mill and stainless steel.
So those are kind of the, you know, those aspects that we're like, okay, we know, we know that this can impact it, but ultimately the terroir we believe is going to overpower those subtle shifts in fermentation. Especially knowing that they've got a very strong microbiome there, inclusive of, you know, they've got their, like their.
I'm failing. The term is failing me right now. It's essentially their pitched yeast that they, you know, that they've now collected, that they essentially use as a starter. So it is still all wild and ambient, but they've got that starter that effectively, you know, just helps inoculate and get everything going, which is in the same room as the stainless tanks. So, you know, it's always this like, balance of what is in the air.
Knowing that the temperatures are generally fairly consistent no matter what the season in that, in that particular area and then controlling the other aspects of production.
[00:42:22] Speaker A: So, yeah, the proprietary ambient yeast that they've created there, the distillery that they use, um, so it. You said your percentage of roller mill, so is the other percentage to Hona?
[00:42:31] Speaker B: Yes. So 70%, 70% roller mill fermented open air stainless, no pagasso. And 30% open air wood. To hona with pagasso.
[00:42:43] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:42:44] Speaker B: So, you know, in tasting through all of the different components, there was just such a big weighty, like intense presence from the tohona and especially the tohona in wood with fibers. Right. Because we tasted to hona in steel and to hona in fiberglass with and without fibers, you know, so it's like, how much is that Going to impact flavor. And those things were just like, that is such a heavy, weighty expression versus the stainless and roller, which is this very, like, bright, austere, just like expressive, vibrant. Right. So it's like, how are we going to find the right blend? Right. And so 7030 is kind of where we, we wound up, like, locking in at. Because that was, you know, as far as what we were all tasting together at that time, that's what we were like. This is, this is the jam.
[00:43:31] Speaker A: So that gives you the, to me, a little more balance between sweet and savory and a little bit from peppery, hot finish to a little bit cleaner, greener finish.
[00:43:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:44] Speaker A: And more of the agave expressiveness versus that.
I mean, I Donuts are some of my favorite, but you can get that really peppery heat in the finish that kind of overpowers a lot of things. And this has a great balance between that.
[00:43:57] Speaker B: Love it. Thanks, man.
[00:43:59] Speaker A: So when you went to do an aged expression, how did you go about choosing the barrels and then be able to have those barrels have that same expression then is not.
[00:44:13] Speaker B: Maybe overpowering.
[00:44:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And enhanced by maybe the last terroir that was in that barrel. You know, how do you keep that, that essence clean of what you have and not having a influence from the prior?
[00:44:28] Speaker B: So part of it is, I mean, admittedly, we took a page straight out of Ocho's book, and it was, you know, we understood the maturation protocols at Ojo really well, which was minimum aging, very old barrels. And fortunately, what you get there is the older the cask, you know, and I, I, I have to explain this a moment because, you know, we start as an ex bourbon barrel, but you then put tequila in it two or three times. You help neutralize all the bourbon characteristics and bring it to, like, again, a baseline of tequila, Right? And so it pulls more tannin out, it pulls more lactones out, it pulls more of your vanilla out. And so you reach a little bit more of this neutrality.
Also, as you wear down the wood, guess what? The wood is holding less and less each time, so it is less of a risk of the previous product impacting the next product because that wood is now more broken down. Um, so we kind of took that page straight from Ocho. And this is where Chava and I kind of came to odds on one. One aspect. We hit two months, right? Because, like, we knew that two months was the minimum. That was what Ocho was, eight weeks and eight days. Right. We always like to say, you know, it's tequila, Ocho So it's eight weeks and eight days. It's perfect. And of course, I would have the occasional naysayer. That's like, man, that's just like. That's two months, a week in a day. And it's like, yeah, but that sounds less cool than eight weeks and eight days.
[00:45:59] Speaker A: It's an eight.
[00:46:00] Speaker B: Eight, Right. So, you know, we did the two months, and Chava was like, oh, man, this is perfect. You know, I don't like reposados. And this, like, it's still beautiful. I still have all the vibrant agave, but I have, like, this little hint of oak to it. I think this is great. And I said, do me a favor. I want to leave it for one more month, and if it's not better, we'll never do it again. Right. We'll go to two months moving forward. But just this one time, we're going to try it for three months.
Chava went back, tasted it a month later, and he was like, this is incredible. This is one of the best reposados I've ever had.
And so we just said, okay, that's it. Like, stop, stop the rest. We're done. Three months is it. That's now the standard. Yeah. And so, you know, the challenge for us, you know, the demand for reposado has far outpaced the demand for the plata, as I think we're seeing, you know, in the United States across category right now. Like, generally speaking, Americans are really gravitating towards aged expressions of tequila.
But because we're using these really worn barrels, there's only so many that we can fill at a time. And so we've kind of maxed it out. You know, we're trying to find ways to. To encourage the guys to use up some more barrels and get some more old oak in there, you know, or at least deplete some more of it so that we can start resting more of it as well. But, you know, the thought was definitely, let's try and, you know, minimize the oak impact by using these super old barrels and go to, like, close to the minimum of the standard. We also bring our barrel entry down, so we're not going in, even though we come off the still right at about, you know, 52 to 55%, which is, of course, the legal maximum for tequila. We do bring the spirit down in proof before we go into barrel. Right. So we are actually trying to encourage. So it's still bottled at 46%. And so we actually go into barrel closer to 48 to 49%, because we expect that we are going to have still a little bit more evaporation, but we want to come out of barrel basically as close to ready to go as possible because we also want to encourage, you know, better diluted lactone extraction there.
[00:48:04] Speaker A: So now is there a thought of going into having it on Yeho or is it just going to stay blata and repo?
[00:48:11] Speaker B: We have emptied every single barrel we have ever filled.
So there. I always tell people there are no like sneaky secret barrels down at Cascoine with lagermas in it. Like they've all been emptied. So, you know, it just is what it is. And you know, part of that discussion was anejo would be almost too much. Like that might be too much character, you know, maybe one day. Like we agreed with Chava and with the family that for the first two to three years we were going to stick to just Plata and just reposado. And that's, you know, we, we got to nail the concept of terroir. We got to make sure that it's expressing the way that we want it to.
And we were all just kind of like, cool. So we're not going to expand, we're not going to do crazy in yehos and crazy expressions. Although there is a crazy expression coming later this year.
But that's a whole other conversation for another time.
[00:49:02] Speaker A: Oh, we need to drop that now.
We love learning about the new things now.
[00:49:10] Speaker B: Let's just say like, you can't let me go run around a Rick house and play with barrels and whiskey all the time and not come up with some cockamamie weird ideas for like, I don't know, this could be really good with tequila. Like I love these tequilas together, so. Or you know, I love these two things together. Maybe these would go good together. So we'll see.
[00:49:29] Speaker A: There's so many things and there's so many brands that are bringing out things that you're like, wow, drinker. I like to have more of that expressive agave flavor. And so I very seldom am grabbing an 80. I'm usually looking for something higher.
And like I showed you, this one is almost gone. I have to go back.
[00:49:47] Speaker B: You've done, you've done amazing work there. So I, I feel, I feel bad that like you need, you need more El Sabino man. Like that is.
[00:49:56] Speaker A: Here's what I like about your brand, okay? I keep one bottle of everything that I drink that is special, right? So, so when I finish a bottle, if it is going, the next bottle is going to be different, then I'M going to save one of those two. So yours. Because they're always a new vintage.
I keep them. All right, so then I have a wall that is about 18ft high. It's all wood. It is about 28ft long.
And I have a shelf on there that's full. And then now we are hanging all of the dead soldiers on this wall, and eventually it's just going to be a wall full of bottles.
And I'm a little too proud of how fast the walls filling up, according to my wife.
[00:50:48] Speaker B: That sounds really familiar. I don't know.
[00:50:50] Speaker A: Yeah, but it's.
[00:50:51] Speaker B: Why am I always finding bottles everywhere around the house?
[00:50:54] Speaker A: I don't know. I'm shaving it. It's got to go on the wall. But it's awesome to have something that's going to be different and special every time. When you go grab tequila off the shelf, it's not supposed to always taste the same. And then to highlight it and teach about it and really make that the main focus of your brand, I think it's really important, and it gives us nerds something really cool to talk about.
[00:51:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that's ultimately it. I just.
I just. I wanted to make. I wanted to make a way for me to meet more nerds.
[00:51:23] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:51:24] Speaker B: Like, shared. Shared geek. Right?
[00:51:26] Speaker A: You found the ultimate Reddit place to go.
[00:51:29] Speaker B: Right. It's just like, hey, you know what? I've got this stupid, crazy idea. I'm just going to bring all the tequila nerds in one room.
[00:51:36] Speaker A: All right? You give some great information. I'm going to hit you with some. Just some quick questions. All right. First tequila you ever fell in love with.
[00:51:44] Speaker B: First tequila I ever fell in love with.
Honestly, in love is a hard question.
I'm gonna go with.
I think it was like, Cabo Wabo. Like, Caboto. Yeah.
So blue bottle.
[00:52:03] Speaker A: Blue bottle.
Yep.
[00:52:06] Speaker B: It was the man, dude. And that was like.
What was that like? Yeah, that was like. I was like. That was. Yeah. 2000s for sure.
[00:52:14] Speaker A: Yeah. 2003, Sammy Hagar's birthday party. I actually drank the ceramic bottle that was made at El Vijito.
[00:52:22] Speaker B: Huh.
[00:52:22] Speaker A: And then from there, it moved to 1426. That's when the bottles became blue.
And that. That's what sucked me into tequila. And back in 2003, 2004.
[00:52:32] Speaker B: That's incredible. So a great mentor, a late mentor of mine, a gentleman named Dave Stringfellow, was the original sales director for Cabo Wabo, and he actually came to work with us at Altimar for a number of years. He Just passed away last year. But it. It was. It was one of those, like, the stories that Dave had about partying with Sammy. Holy.
Like, but, like, legitimately. I remember being in college and tasting tequila, you know, like, because it's college and, like, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is. I'm, you know, taking shots of Juarez and whatever is, you know, in a plastic jug and cheap. And then, you know, it's like the director, like, the. The chef at the wine bar was like, you got to try this, you know? And I remember it was Cabo Wabo. And then it was like, holy shit, what have we just got into?
You know, Ocho was actually another one of those for me. Like, the first time I tasted Ocho, I was like, what the fuck? Like, I was part of my French. Like, hopefully you're either bleeping or you're, like, appropriately rated. We got the E.
Great. Thanks to.
[00:53:33] Speaker A: Thanks to Tipper Gore, we have the.
[00:53:36] Speaker B: Nailed it.
Awesome. Yeah.
[00:53:40] Speaker A: So that. It's funny that you say that, because Cabo Wabo brought me to tequila. Then it changed. I changed.
[00:53:46] Speaker B: I left.
[00:53:47] Speaker A: I drank bourbon. I drank, you know, garbage. Tequila in the summertime and bourbon in the winter time. And Ocho is the tequila that brought me back because no way I got to taste agave again. And that's the.
That Ocho, you know, seven years ago is the thing that made me go, oh, wait, this is what I liked about tequila.
[00:54:09] Speaker B: Yep. And totally relate to that.
[00:54:12] Speaker A: Yeah. I. I mean, I'm 56, so I have just got a bunch of years on you.
[00:54:16] Speaker B: No, I'm trying to chase you, man.
[00:54:18] Speaker A: Sammy Hagar's birthday party, we started going in Cabo in 2003. I leave on the 6th. We party on the 9th, 11th, the 9th, the 11th, and the 13th this year for his birthday, and we'll be home on the 17th. So. Yeah, we've been doing that for years. It's a lot of fun.
Okay, what's the most underrated agave spirit that people should be drinking?
[00:54:42] Speaker B: Underrated agave spirit? Tushka, for sure. T, U, X, C A Tushka.
I only know of, like, one tushka that's currently coming into the United States, and it is under the brand Chocolo.
[00:54:54] Speaker A: I've heard of chocolate.
[00:54:56] Speaker B: Yeah. It's imported by heavy metal. Again, one of these, like, importers that. It's like, these guys are legit. They do great work.
Yeah. William Scanlon over there is killing it. But Chocolo is incredible that. Well. And it's not necessarily an agave spirit per se, but anything maisonte, Anything Masonte, which is imported by Siembra, right? So Soro, like all of it doesn't matter. If I see a bottle of Masonte I've never had, I'm buying it. Like the. I don't care how much it is. Like, and they're usually expensive, but they are absolutely worth it. It's like less than 200 liters distilled annually, so. Wow. Yeah, I mean, it's truly like art and culture in a bottle. And it's incredible.
[00:55:39] Speaker A: Favorite cocktail that you can showcase the terroir in Tequila in.
[00:55:46] Speaker B: Favorite cocktail that you showcase terroir in Tequilin.
Oh, man, that one's tough. That one's really tough. Because it depends upon the terroir, right? Because if this is me turning into, like, cocktail nerd for a second. So let me put my, like, very snooty, very curly mustache on for a second, right? Because, like, I gotta go to that place. Like, I gotta go to a special place in my brain for it.
So, like, if it's a super mineral driven tequila, like, let's say it's very valley and it's like, oh, my gosh, I'm getting so much, like, minerality out of this.
I might go like a martini riff and let it just be like dry and mineral and hit it with like a little bit of like, grapefruit bitters to punctuate, like a little bit of, like, fruit to it. But I would go super simple and it would be just as important what vermouth I put with it, because something like, if there's too much quinine or in. In the vermouth, it's going to overpower the minerality, whereas I want the minerality of the tequila to shine. Now, if I have a tequila that's more like guanajuato, which is like the La Sabina, right? Which is this. To me, it's a brighter, more herbaceous, like, there's very almost like palo santo kind of notes to it. Very green.
That's something where I'm like, hell, I'll throw that in a paloma in a second. And then accentuate the green by, you know, so I'm you. I've got grapefruit in there already. But I'm probably gonna throw some, like, celery bitters in to just punctuate salinity and green and maybe a little bit of like, even a muddled jalapeno. Because, like, at 46%, like, if we're talking lagermas specifically, like, it's got the proof to stand up to extra stuff in the cocktail too. So it's like I could easily throw some heavier hitter ingredients at it and still get a decent amount of terroir out of it.
So it just depends.
It just depends what the terroir is and how much I really want to geek out about that particular thing.
[00:57:43] Speaker A: But yeah, that's awesome that you said that about this because one of the notes when we were talking that I got really clean, I actually got a lot of salinity. I did get a little celery, but I also got a hint of, like, madera. Like a. Oh, yeah. Like a woodish mineral hint in the. Going into the finish that I didn't get in the other one. Like, it stood out so different between the two.
And I. I mean, making a cocktail to shine to each individual one, I can see that being. Oh, yeah.
[00:58:14] Speaker B: I mean, like, yeah, fun. That is like nerdy bartender heaven for me. Right. Like, I. I haven't found a place to do this yet. Right. Like, of course I mess around this a little with this a little bit at home. But, like, the moment I walk into a bar, if I find somebody that's got like a terroir specific cocktail, like, I will lose my. Right. Like, they're just like, oh, no, no, this is the La Sabina. This, because. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, we did. We did a competition ages ago with Ocho called Viva Sangrita. Right. And Sangrita being like, little blood. Right. But the point was your Sangrita would be paired to the terroir of the particular rant or the particular estate of Ocho. And it was one of those, like, ah, it's the geekiest, the best thing. And like, all the flavors were there. I was. Yeah. So, like, I'm waiting. I'm waiting for that moment with La Grimas. And like, I feel like we're getting close, but I'm waiting for it, man.
[00:59:06] Speaker A: It's. It's awesome to me. Okay, so here's another question. If you could sit down and let's say you bring four, four or five of your tequilas, La Grimas there, and you get to sit down with anybody in the world in history that you could sit down and share this tequila with and share your story about this tequila with, who would that person be? Who would you want to sit down and really share this with?
[00:59:36] Speaker B: Honestly?
The late Tomas Estes.
I mean. Cause, like, Tom is to date, like, Tom was one of the biggest mentors I had in my own path in the World of Agave. And, you know, there's just something about, like, I. I want to show him that. It's like, look, man, like, this is actually.
I'm not trying to, like, steal your thunder by any means. If anything, I want. I want you to. I want him to be excited and, like, taste it and be like, holy shit. Like, this is cool. I love that. Like, this story has expanded so much, you know? So it's interesting because it's. It's recent, right? Like, it's still very recent. And I don't know. There's still. I still have a lot of, like, love and respect for Tom and for everything that he did for the category of tequila. So I think he would. He'd absolutely be up there.
Other than that, my own father, that'd be another big one. Like, my dad. My dad passed away when I was five, and so it'd be one of those where it's like, he was a restaurateur. He was extremely passionate about flavor. I know that. So, like, I would love to sit down and be like, hey, check this out. Like, isn't this crazy? Like, did you ever think that tequila could do this? You know, I. I want to know if he would geek out about it the same way that I do. Like, I know Tom would. I know Tom would. I'm curious if my dad would.
[01:00:52] Speaker A: I think. You know, I don't. I don't know you very well. I don't know your father, but I.
I'm a father, so I know that if my son comes home and. And he's fired up about something that I've been passionate about my whole life, maybe a subcategory of that, meaning. I'm a restaurateur. I'm into food and flavor, and here you come with terroir and flavor of tequila. How could he not just go down that same rabbit hole of excitement? That's. That's.
That would be awesome. That'd be awesome to see.
[01:01:27] Speaker B: Yeah. I say. I say that as a father myself, too. And watching my girls grow up, it's just like, man, that would be. Yeah, it'd be super cool. Like, I. I can. I can definitely relate with that.
[01:01:38] Speaker A: So my kids are all in their 30s.
When a kid comes home and goes, dude, did you hear that guitar riff? You know, I've played guitar my whole life, and I'm like, wait a minute. You like the guitar riff? And I.
That was in the Hamilton play. But, yeah, that was kind of cool. Like, you.
Yeah, you instantly connect over things, and. And I think Tequila is something that people connect over food. Something can people connect over music? Something people connect.
The things all are so tied together. We all can think back to a meal with a friend at a place, and that becomes this part of your. Your, you know, your DNA. And tequila is that way for me. Music's that way for me. Certain things can transcend you to another place just by a taste, a smell, and a sound. And I think that's pretty amazing. And what you guys are doing with this helps just bring another piece of that to the world, and that's pretty awesome.
[01:02:33] Speaker B: I wholeheartedly agree, man. Wholeheartedly agree, and thank you very much.
[01:02:37] Speaker A: Okay. Where can people find it?
[01:02:39] Speaker B: Where can people find it?
Honestly, altimarbrands.com we've now. We're now set up. We found a couple of retailers that can fortunately drop ship to many states, so you can track some of these down there, and which is actually helpful for some of the, like, older inventories that we're coming across, so. Which is enabling us to bring and have multiple ranches in the market at one time.
Similarly, like Total Wine carries a lot of our stuff. If you're in the Chicago area, Benny's Specs down in Houston, High times. If you're out in Californ, I mean, we actually have pretty broad distribution across the U.S. now, thankfully, you know, and here in the Kansas City area, strong recommendation for bubbles and mics and gomers. Those guys have been supporting us for years. So, yeah, I mean, and if you can't find it, tell your favorite shop that you're looking for it. It's actually the best, most helpful thing you can do for, like, small independent brands is just walking in and asking for the brand that you heard about that you're interested about. So it's a big, big, big, big, big help when you don't have a celebrity or millions of dollars to, you know, buy ad campaigns. So that's true.
[01:03:51] Speaker A: And I'll throw a.
A plug out for Sobro Spirits in Indianapolis in the southern Broad Ripple area, and also West Clay Wine and Spirits up in Carmel, they carry it as well. And that is so true. When you walk in and ask that store and get them to write it down and ask their buyer, it creates a conversation because now they know that's something that you want to buy. So, Brandon, I really appreciate your time. I mean, I think it's a. I think it's a Tuesday night taking your time to talk to us about tequila, and I really appreciate you doing this, and thanks for everything. Thanks for the bottles and thanks for the really fun conversation.
[01:04:29] Speaker B: Awesome. Brad. My pleasure man. Thank you for having me.
[01:04:31] Speaker A: No worries. Hey, if you enjoyed watching this and you want to hear more about Tequila brands and Tequila, definitely hit that subscribe and like button. Do me a favor, if you believe that terroir really exists in Tequila, drop your thoughts in the comments below. And if you've tried this amazing tequila, let me know about it as well. Thanks for watching tonight. Have a great day.
